Speedmaster Professional 3570.50 Service - Examining the Dial

blueteg · Apr 24, 2022

Is this watchmaker Omega certified?
If he's charging $800, then his work should be equivalent to what you would get with Omega.
I don't feel like this is something that would have happened with Omega or a really good Omega certified independent watch maker....and if did, they would make it right.

Foo2rama · Apr 24, 2022

If you paid 800, then I'd expect he would have replaced the sub dial counters to be replaced if that happaned.

Frank J Malloy · Apr 25, 2022

Foo2rama
If you paid 800, then I'd expect he would have replaced the sub dial counters to be replaced if that happaned.

Agree. Now I hear that Omega charges $750. Lesson learned - this local watchmaker is to be avoided.

Frank J Malloy · Apr 25, 2022

blueteg
Is this watchmaker Omega certified?
If he's charging $800, then his work should be equivalent to what you would get with Omega.
I don't feel like this is something that would have happened with Omega or a really good Omega certified independent watch maker....and if did, they would make it right.

Yes, he is certified. When I brought in the watch he was proud to show me his bench - with tons of tools with the "Omega" name and logo. He showed me pics of him in a white lab coat with a red "Omega" on it - he went to Switzerland for co-axial training, and I saw pics of him in front of an impressive building with the name on it. He showed me all kinds of pics of disassembled watches that he's worked on, and he has tons of great reviews on Yelp from Rolex owners, Omega owners, etc. who got servicing done. So I thought, this guy's legit.

So, I'm pretty disappointed. I guess any repair person can mess up putting such tiny hands back on, but you'd think he'd install a new hand and tell me. I was hoping to find a good local watchmaker I can trust. Now I have to wait 6 weeks for him to get a new hand and hope he puts it back on correctly.

Archer · Apr 25, 2022

F Frank J Malloy
Yes, he is certified. When I brought in the watch he was proud to show me his bench - with tons of tools with the "Omega" name and logo. He showed me pics of him in a white lab coat with a red "Omega" on it - he went to Switzerland for co-axial training, and I saw pics of him in front of an impressive building with the name on it. He showed me all kinds of pics of disassembled watches that he's worked on, and he has tons of great reviews on Yelp from Rolex owners, Omega owners, etc. who got servicing done. So I thought, this guy's legit.

So, I'm pretty disappointed. I guess any repair person can mess up putting such tiny hands back on, but you'd think he'd install a new hand and tell me. I was hoping to find a good local watchmaker I can trust. Now I have to wait 6 weeks for him to get a new hand and hope he puts it back on correctly.

Looking at the photos you posted, I think the hand should have been replaced, or at the very least you should have been asked if you wanted it replaced (many people wouldn't bother).

Having said that, paint sometimes flakes off these hands when they are pressed on - it's not necessarily some form of gross negligence that this has happened, it's just the way things are with painted hands. That's why I come across things like this often:

Where someone had globbed on some poorly matching off white paint to cover up the damage.

If the watchmaker is making it right, I'm not sure what more you could ask for given the situation...

Frank J Malloy · Apr 25, 2022

Archer
Looking at the photos you posted, I think the hand should have been replaced, or at the very least you should have been asked if you wanted it replaced (many people wouldn't bother).

Having said that, paint sometimes flakes off these hands when they are pressed on - it's not necessarily some form of gross negligence that this has happened, it's just the way things are with painted hands. That's why I come across things like this often:

Where someone had globbed on some poorly matching off white paint to cover up the damage.

If the watchmaker is making it right, I'm not sure what more you could ask for given the situation...

Thank you Archer, your expert feedback is always appreciated.

I'm not upset at the tiny chip of paint (it's so tiny and minor), it's more about the gouged/misshapen center pin. I'm worried the hand might not be stable. I would think that if any hand had any damage in removal/replacement, that a new hand is needed. Seems reasonable for an $800 service.

Yes, he said he will order a new hand and install it. And yes, there is not more I could ask, I'm just disappointed that he didn't tell me and replace the part proactively instead of sneaking it by me. Just for that, I can't trust him fully anymore.

gbesq · Apr 25, 2022

mbp
Any reason the modern ones go to the Omega service center? Parts or complexity?

Unless there is accidental damage, Omega Service is generally price competitive with independents for service of a modern watch. They have all of the parts readily available as well as the proper equipment to refinish the case and bracelet. Many movement parts, hands, etc. are included in Omega's flat fee. They also offer a two year warranty and will return the watch looking brand new which is what many owners of modern Omegas want. There's also no danger of them ruining the watch by "updating" it as would certainly be a serious risk with sending them a vintage piece. Finally, not all independent watchmakers will work on co-axial movements. I'm not advocating on behalf of Omega Service. In fact, I use independent watchmakers for all of the watches in my collection, including modern Omegas, but there are some advantages as I've outlined here to using Omega to service their modern models and they generally do good work.

Archer · Apr 25, 2022

F Frank J Malloy
Thank you Archer, your expert feedback is always appreciated.

I'm not upset at the tiny chip of paint (it's so tiny and minor), it's more about the gouged/misshapen center pin. I'm worried the hand might not be stable. I would think that if any hand had any damage in removal/replacement, that a new hand is needed. Seems reasonable for an $800 service.

Yes, he said he will order a new hand and install it. And yes, there is not more I could ask, I'm just disappointed that he didn't tell me and replace the part proactively instead of sneaking it by me. Just for that, I can't trust him fully anymore.

On the "gouged/misshapen center pin" from what I can see, this is really a non-issue with regards to functionality, so this is 100% a cosmetic issue.

I understand your position. If I may suggest a "reasonability test" with your stance though. Let's look at this situation as if you were an employee who made a similar mistake at your workplace. The mistake was brought to your attention, and you acknowledged it and corrected it without complaint. Then your boss said "Sorry, I just can't fully trust you anymore, so you are fired." If this would seem reasonable to you as the employee, then great. If it would make you pause as the employee, then maybe give this some additional thought...

I will say that the standard you are setting is likely going to leave you disappointed in the future with nearly every service provider you will encounter, including Omega.

Frank J Malloy · Apr 25, 2022

Archer
I understand your position. If I may suggest a "reasonability test" with your stance though. Let's look at this situation as if you were an employee who made a similar mistake at your workplace. The mistake was brought to your attention, and you acknowledged it and corrected it without complaint. Then your boss said "Sorry, I just can't fully trust you anymore, so you are fired." If this would seem reasonable to you as the employee, then great. If it would make you pause as the employee, then maybe give this some additional thought...

I understand your point. However, what put a bad taste in my mouth was that: 1) he didn't mention it to me or offer to fix it (hoping I wouldn't notice it), and 2) when I came back to his shop and very politely pointed out my concern, he didn't acknowledge a problem, nor did he deny the issue either. All he said was "I can order a new hand for you, 4-6 weeks, and I will put it on". I agree that is a good thing, but admitting there was an issue makes a big difference to a customer in the area of trust.

People make mistakes. It's super-tiny, complex work. I understand and respect that. But when you pay $800 it's reasonable for it to come back looking at least the same as when it was left. The idea is to replace parts that need it. In this case, it needed replacement, and he didn't do it. I know that Omega replaces hands when needed. He didn't tell me about any replaced parts or provide me with any old parts.

Thanks again for your input. And thanks for the comment about the non-issue w.r.t. functionality. I was afraid that the hand might come loose later. My photo was pretty poor; under the loupe it looks somewhat worse.

Evitzee · Apr 25, 2022

Based on my monitor the pics are about at 8x magnification, clearly some chipping of paint on the hand and based on that it would be unacceptable at 8x magnification. But we don't live in a world with 8x magnification eyeballs and, as mentioned, many people wouldn't be worried about it, and many people don't want things replaced if it can be avoided. Many owners don't even use a loupe, they just buy and wear their watches. The repairman louped it and offered to replace the hand since you weren't satisfied, so not much more you can expect. I don't see his non-committal opinion about the hand as any reflection on his ability or approach to the work, you weren't satisfied so he is going to put a new hand on, fair outcome for you. I think you are being a little unreasonable in saying that this repairer is unacceptable to use in the future, but it's your watch and your money.

blufinz52 · Apr 25, 2022

@Frank J Malloy, I'm curious what made you look at the watch under an 8X, 10x loupe? You said you can't see it with the naked eye, why did you inspect it with a loupe?

Frank J Malloy · Apr 25, 2022

Evitzee
I think you are being a little unreasonable in saying that this repairer is unacceptable to use in the future, but it's your watch and your money.

Thanks for your response. I do take them seriously as you are respected enthusiasts.

The paint chip is not a big deal to me (it's tiny); it's the center metal cap/post that is gouged that is bothering me. It actually looks worse with the loupe; the photo blurred it as the focus is not perfect. I just expected to get back a watch that was in the same or better visual condition; a service is supposed to restore the watch to a great condition, not make it worse.

Spending $800 and waiting two months is a big deal to me; I need to be sure that I can trust him for future repairs. Like I said, if he called me and said - "sorry, the hand needs replacement, I will order it, you just need to wait a bit more" it would have made all the difference. But if this hand was damaged and he didn't notify me, what else in the movement could be wrong? Honesty and transparency mean something.

Frank J Malloy · Apr 25, 2022

blufinz52
@Frank J Malloy, I'm curious what made you look at the watch under an 8X, 10x loupe? You said you can't see it with the naked eye, why did you inspect it with a loupe?

It's a valid question, I wanted to make sure that the esthetics/look of the dial and hands were ok after the service. After all, when I dropped off the watch he went over it with his loupe in detail to check the condition as left with him, so why can't I do the same to check his work?

blufinz52 · Apr 25, 2022

F Frank J Malloy
It's a valid question, I wanted to make sure that the esthetics/look of the dial and hands were ok after the service. After all, when I dropped off the watch he went over it with his loupe in detail to check the condition as left with him, so why can't I do the same to check his work?

Makes sense. 👍

Frank J Malloy · Jun 11, 2022

For anyone still interested, the replacement minute counter hand finally came in. I got a call it was in, and he said it would take a few days to install it. I waited a few days and didn't hear back, so I called. Yep, watch was ready.

So, the new minute counter hand looks perfect - great! Except now the chrono hand no longer resets to 12, it resets to about 1/4 second to the left of the 12 o'clock mark. Before and after the initial service, it reset perfectly vertical.

My Yelp review will reflect the whole story. Honestly and accurately.

It's fine, I'll live with it. I'm done complaining. But it does raise the issue - any time your watch is sent in for service, there are tons of things that can go wrong - scratch the case, the lugs, the bracelet, the dial, the hand alignment, whatever.

I paid $800USD for this service - is it wrong for me to expect my watch to come back in the same - or better - shape as when I left it?

blueteg · Jun 11, 2022

The chrono reset problem would bother me more than than minute counter problem, since you can see the bad reset position with the naked eye everytime you look down to check the time.
Wouldn't the watchmaker have noticed that before letting it leave his shop? SMH

rudagger · Jun 12, 2022

F Frank J Malloy
It's a valid question, I wanted to make sure that the esthetics/look of the dial and hands were ok after the service. After all, when I dropped off the watch he went over it with his loupe in detail to check the condition as left with him, so why can't I do the same to check his work?

It's odd,like you say, that he wouldn't be checking the final work himself in detail. After all, he checked in detail as the watch came in.

My mom taught me at a young age to speak up when things are wrong, and that service people will like to say 1 of 2 things.

1) You're being picky.
2) Oh, that's normal.

She taught me to ask whether that's the way the next one is. Inevitably, the answer is "no".

So I disagree with others - you're not being picky, and it's not normal.

Ron_W · Jun 12, 2022

F Frank J Malloy
The person I used is Omega trained, and can buy Omega parts, and all that. He showed me pics of him in a white coat with the Omega logo at Omega in what looks like Switzerland HQ. He said he was there to get co-axial training. He showed me his bench and all his equipment.

So, this person is legit, and he has dozens of great reviews for his servicing (he also does Rolex, etc.). I was just a bit disappointed in his installation of the minute counter hand.

Tell him about your concern, and ask for a replacement hand. There is no reason for it to get damaged if he used the correct tool.

Comtrader12 · Jun 12, 2022

F Frank J Malloy
Ok, this bugged me enough that I went back to the watchmaker. He looked at it under his loupe. He didn't say it was acceptable or that I was being nit-picky but he didn't say it was a poor job either. He said he will order another hand and install it - 4-6 weeks to get it.

Attached are before/after photos. Clearly, the hand is worse than when I gave it to him. Before it had a small white dome with a hole and a pin in it (like the other two subdials) Now, the white dome is gone, the metal center post is gouged and misshapen, and there is a small paint chip on the left side.

I notice that the new 3861s do not have the small white dome - they have shiny crimped metal tops. I'm ok if he replaced the hand with one of those, but this metal center is messed up, and he didn't want to replace it.

You don't see this without magnification, but again - I think when you pay $800 for a service it should come back looking the same or better, even under 10x. Personally, I think he should have seen the damaged hand and put a new one on.

[/QUOTEW

Comtrader12 · Jun 12, 2022

You are not being picky. Its your watch and the watch should have come back better in my opinion then when you dropped it off.
.

Speedmaster Professional 3570.50 Service - Examining the Dial

blueteg

Foo2rama

Frank J Malloy

Frank J Malloy

Archer

Frank J Malloy

gbesq

Archer

Frank J Malloy

Evitzee

blufinz52

Frank J Malloy

Frank J Malloy

blufinz52

Frank J Malloy

blueteg

rudagger

Ron_W

Comtrader12

Comtrader12

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