Speedmaster Moonwatch losing time.

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By all means please present a properly researched study, and I will be all ears...

Cheers, Al

I wish I could. I do not discount your experience because you clearly have a lot of it. If I ever come across a study I will be sure to share it.

Tom
 
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Could lubricant migration be a factor?

Lubrication is generally held in place by capillary action in the jewels. Watch companies and watchmakers take great pains to ensure that lubrication is placed correctly, and that it stays put. Specific surface treatments are used to prevent migration in some areas of the movement.

Ideas that things "wear in" or that lubrication "migrates" sound good at first, but any real digging into such ideas quickly reveals them to be nothingburgers...

So I'll ask you this...what lubrication is it that you feel might be migrating, and how exactly would that affect timekeeping? Simple questions...
 
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I don't have the knowledge of what lubricant would be used but I would assume there is some present on the cams and levers of the chronograph train. Could it be possible this might have got into the teeth of the gears or even on the balance wheel?

Thanks, Ray
 
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I don't have the knowledge of what lubricant would be used but I would assume there is some present on the cams and levers of the chronograph train. Could it be possible this might have got into the teeth of the gears or even on the balance wheel?

Thanks, Ray

Possible? Yes sure it's possible. Likely? Not very.

Here is the amount of oil that would be applied to the cam/hammer interface:



Because this is a macro photo, to give you an idea of the scale here, the width of the tip of the oiler shown is a little under 1/5th of a mm (0.18 mm). The entire watch uses a couple of drops of oil...so unless someone has seriously over lubricated the watch, it's unlikely to be from oil migration.
 
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Noticed something quite strange when testing the positional timekeeping. If the watch is perfectly horizontal dial up it will lose 2 sec/day however if it is just a hair off perfectly horizontal it will gain 1.8! Could you explain this Archer?

Thanks,
 
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Noticed something quite strange when testing the positional timekeeping. If the watch is perfectly horizontal dial up it will lose 2 sec/day however if it is just a hair off perfectly horizontal it will gain 1.8! Could you explain this Archer?

Thanks,

How are you measuring this difference?
 
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Using the watch check app which uses atomic time reference. When sub seconds hand hits the 12 I take a measurement and it shows me the difference from the last measurement.
 
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Using the watch check app which uses atomic time reference. When sub seconds hand hits the 12 I take a measurement and it shows me the difference from the last measurement.
Are you an engineering nerd? If so the margin of error in your reaction time for a 1 minute test should be obvious to you.
 
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Using the watch check app which uses atomic time reference. When sub seconds hand hits the 12 I take a measurement and it shows me the difference from the last measurement.

There are too many variables at play here to gain any real understanding of what is going on here. I don't know the accuracy of this app, if you are fully winding the watch, the period over which the testing is being done, if you are letting the watch settle between movements, etc.

If you want to get meaningful data, you will need a timing machine, but be warned that for people who are somewhat OCD these can be a curse rather than a blessing.
 
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Unfortunately I don't own a timegrapher, so this is the best method I have. I have no issues using this with other watches. As far as I'm aware the app is accurate as I have two other radio controlled watches which sync up perfectly to this. I give the watch a full wind each time and take a measurement once every 24hrs.
 
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If you want to get meaningful data, you will need a timing machine, but be warned that for people who are somewhat OCD these can be a curse rather than a blessing.

This man knows what he's saying. Even a new watch drifts a bit on the timing machine, rate moving from (for example) +3 to +1 to +2 and keep watching, you'll go batshit insane quickly.

Do you know what percent variation 2 seconds per day is?

Divide 2 by 86400...

That's an error of 0.002315%

Nowhere in life does anyone complain about an error that small... except with their watches.

Tom
 
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Ive just purchased a Speedmaster (3861 calibrate) for my 50th birthday. I’m wondering if a first day/bedding in process is normal? I set the watch at 1150 yesterday. This morning when I woke up at 0630 the watch was 35 minutes slow.

I have reset to accurate time at 0700 and will monitor for a 24 hour period but I’m wondering if this first day of ownership is concerning or has been experienced before. I’ve read the comments above regarding small time errors but 35 minutes is obviously unacceptable.
 
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Ive just purchased a Speedmaster (3861 calibrate) for my 50th birthday. I’m wondering if a first day/bedding in process is normal? I set the watch at 1150 yesterday. This morning when I woke up at 0630 the watch was 35 minutes slow.

I have reset to accurate time at 0700 and will monitor for a 24 hour period but I’m wondering if this first day of ownership is concerning or has been experienced before. I’ve read the comments above regarding small time errors but 35 minutes is obviously unacceptable.

Very strange.
Keep monitoring and let us know how it's going tomorrow👍
There's no real conclusive evidence there is a run in period depending on who one listens to.
Though I do monitor timekeeping fairly closely in the initial state of ownership, i can say that I've had 3 watches which changed their timekeeping within the first couple of weeks from new, but none others.

Ordinarily, I would be inclined to suggest you were in error when setting the watch, but it also may have been dropped prior to you taking delivery🙁
 
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Hi Guys,

About a month ago I purchased the Speedmaster Moonwatch cal 1861. Current timekeeping dial up is - 1.5 sec/day. When I bought watch it was +7 sec/day. So it has gradually been losing time. It has already been back to omega to sort out a chrono second hand alignment issue. Since I've had it back it has been running - 1.5 sec/day Dial up other orientations are on average +2 sec/day. I'm aware the tolerance for this watch is +11 to - 1 so should I be concerned about this current timekeeping? Do you think its worth the hassle sending it back to omega again?

Thanks.
I had a 25th anniversary one some twenty plus years ago.
Funny thing person who has it now connected with me on this site for informationon it.
Pretty crazy and wild!
Anyway I pointed out that the watch had a position error, so I opened it up for a look.
Put er on the testor & the error was gone.
So, closed er up and believe the factory over torqued the case back.
The error was gone as I did not super torque the case back.
I think or rationalized that the super torqued back caused the main ( or pillar ) plate to distort causing the error. That was not the reason I sold the watch. It had some special accrutraments, shall we say.
If you check the threads you'll find, "The rest of the story!" ( The late Paul Harvy's line.) I have spent too much tyme on this site today, but it' been a hoot! Good night to yall!
Mike
Mike
 
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Very strange.
Keep monitoring and let us know how it's going tomorrow👍
There's no real conclusive evidence there is a run in period depending on who one listens to.
Though I do monitor timekeeping fairly closely in the initial state of ownership, i can say that I've had 3 watches which changed their timekeeping within the first couple of weeks from new, but none others.

Ordinarily, I would be inclined to suggest you were in error when setting the watch, but it also may have been dropped prior to you taking delivery🙁
Thanks for your thoughts. It was definitely accurately set when purchased.

My thoughts are see how it goes for a couple of 24 hour periods initially. If huge losses occur I will request an exchange for another 3861. I am not prepared to send the watch away for 8 weeks. If this is not an option I’ll get a refund and review future plans.
 
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I wish I could. I do not discount your experience because you clearly have a lot of it. If I ever come across a study I will be sure to share it.

Tom
Hi Guys,

About a month ago I purchased the Speedmaster Moonwatch cal 1861. Current timekeeping dial up is - 1.5 sec/day. When I bought watch it was +7 sec/day. So it has gradually been losing time. It has already been back to omega to sort out a chrono second hand alignment issue. Since I've had it back it has been running - 1.5 sec/day Dial up other orientations are on average +2 sec/day. I'm aware the tolerance for this watch is +11 to - 1 so should I be concerned about this current timekeeping? Do you think its worth the hassle sending it back to omega again?

Thanks.
One thought also try demagnatising it.
The solid backs use to come with a shield to protect against stray magnetic fields.
 
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Ive just purchased a Speedmaster (3861 calibrate) for my 50th birthday. I’m wondering if a first day/bedding in process is normal? I set the watch at 1150 yesterday. This morning when I woke up at 0630 the watch was 35 minutes slow.

I have reset to accurate time at 0700 and will monitor for a 24 hour period but I’m wondering if this first day of ownership is concerning or has been experienced before. I’ve read the comments above regarding small time errors but 35 minutes is obviously unacceptable.

Did you fully wind it?
 
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Did you fully wind it?
It was fully wound but I was careful not to overwind. I fully wound it this morning when I set the time at 0700.