Speedmaster Moonwatch 321 Platinum

SpeedyPhill · Jul 22, 2019

ras47
I love the idea of the moon meteorite material being included, but it mars the legibility of the subdials. Aesthetic details vs. the Speedmaster's legendary usability as a tool watch. I can't help but think what the Apollo 13 astronauts would have said if Swigert's Speedy was difficult to read. Yeah, I know, I know, they used the second hand and not the subdials. But compromising the Speedmaster's purity of design as a tool watch bothers me. Given the price of this SE model and it's limited availability the issue is moot for me. Moot for most of us.

That's why the Apollo 13 CMP Swigert used James Lovell's NASA-issued Speedmaster to time the burn…
Although Swigert was wearing his personal Rolex GMT-master and a NASA-issued Speedmaster
(Cfr story recently told by James Ragan & Petros Protopapas on SpeedyTuesday event in Hong Kong)

queriver · Jul 22, 2019

padders
One factor you need to include is density.

I did, as stated in my post. 😀

padders
Yes good quality white 18K is made with maybe 10% Palladium but you can make passable white gold using silver or even copper with a few % of cheaper white metals, ....

Regarding WG alloys, we can assume Omega would focus on quality of materials and not unit metal costs. Ni, Cu and Ag are cheap metals but Ni wouldn't be used for health reasons and anything more than a small amount of Cu works against achieving the needed white effect. Being a light metal, a significant Ag content in the alloy probably won't give customers the impression they are buying a "hefty" watch. For these reasons I expect they'd include expensive Pd.

padders · Jul 22, 2019

queriver
I did, as stated in my post. 😀

Regarding WG alloys, we can assume Omega would focus on quality of materials and not unit metal costs. Ni, Cu and Ag are cheap metals but Ni wouldn't be used for health reasons and anything more than a small amount of Cu works against achieving the needed white effect. Being a light metal, a significant Ag content in the alloy probably won't give customers the impression they are buying a "hefty" watch. For these reasons I expect they'd include expensive Pd.

Indeed you did!

You may be right about Omega using Pd, Cartier and Tiffany certainly do in their WG alloys but you might be surprised how many I see that have significant Ni content and other lesser metals, it not surprising that lots of jewellery causes skin complaints. I use an XRF tester at work so can test these things when I choose,.

fskywalker · Jul 22, 2019

I assume Omega does not make it a limited edition to keep open the possibility of building more of them if there is the market for that, but for that amount of $ it should at least be a numbered edition ::facepalm1::

EricCsN · Jul 22, 2019

There are 50 states in the USA and so many countries in the world. If in each of these states a purchase of one piece is made plus another 50 in these other countries , I would think it would easily be able to sell 100 of them without problems. At $40k , this would be small change - $4M

YY77 · Jul 22, 2019

EricCsN
There are 50 states in the USA and so many countries in the world. If in each of these states a purchase of one piece is made plus another 50 in these other countries , I would think it would easily be able to sell 100 of them without problems. At $40k , this would be small change - $4M

They stiil need to account for the 1mln paid in research for the 321 caliber so I don't think 100 sales will be sufficient for Omega.

EricCsN · Jul 22, 2019

YY77
They stiil need to account for the 1mln paid in research for the 321 caliber so I don't think 100 sales will be sufficient for Omega.

correction I think the price is about $56k not $40k but the same ball park. Indeed it would be highly unprofitable if sales are only 100 pieces

Evitzee · Jul 22, 2019

It's a halo piece for the Speedmaster line, the value is in the story of it's reincarnation and ties to the moon landings. Although it's platinum it's GOLD to the Omega image. I doubt the 321 project will ever make much money for Omega, they'll be happy if it's revenue neutral in the long run. The future of the Speedmaster line does not lie with this oldie movement.

YY77 · Jul 22, 2019

Just hypothetically; if Omega hadn't discontinued the 321 50 years ago we would still have the movement in the standard Speedmaster at regular MSRP, why would we have to pay premium for development due to their decision 5 decades ago?

Martin_J_N · Jul 22, 2019

Evitzee
It's a halo piece for the Speedmaster line, the value is in the story of it's reincarnation and ties to the moon landings. Although it's platinum it's GOLD to the Omega image. I doubt the 321 project will ever make much money for Omega, they'll be happy if it's revenue neutral in the long run. The future of the Speedmaster line does not lie with this oldie movement.

My view is that Omega will want to make a sizeable profit from the new 321, Omega is a business and so everything they do has a cost and that cost has to be covered, and as with any business Omega are there to make a profit for their shareholders. There have been a lot of people clamouring for the movement to be made available, so now it is, I can see a small number of Platinum models maybe 300-400 each year with the rest of the movements going to the SS version. The SS watches may simply be order and wait for your number to get to the top of the pile, you might get your watch this year, next year or the year after.

Omega need to run this new line for many years, the longer they run it the development costs per watch reduce, the more profit they make.

Just my humble opinion 😀

LeonDeBayonne · Jul 22, 2019

Evitzee
I doubt the 321 project will ever make much money for Omega, they'll be happy if it's revenue neutral in the long run. The future of the Speedmaster line does not lie with this oldie movement.

I agree with the second sentence. But the first??? Pricing more than 50,000 USD a watch that is made of old designs and parts (correct me if I'm wrong but there is nothing in this watch that has not fit another watch before) leaves room for significant margins.

Foo2rama · Jul 22, 2019

LeonDeBayonne
I agree with the second sentence. But the first??? Pricing more than 50,000 USD a watch that is made of old designs and parts (correct me if I'm wrong but there is nothing in this watch that has not fit another watch before) leaves room for significant margins.

Everything is a new part save the special remake of a movement that went out of production over 50 years ago.

Bezel is enamel not printed
aluminum onyx and platinum hour indices.
Platinum case
Meteorite from the moon sub dials.

Archer · Jul 22, 2019

You can be sure Omega will be making profits from this watch. The cost of production has little to do with the selling price on goods like this.

LeonDeBayonne · Jul 22, 2019

Everything is a new part save the special remake of a movement that went out of production over 50 years ago. --> So this is a movement that has just been rejuvenated. That's all. Is it very complicated to manufacture it again?
Bezel is enamel not printed --> Different from new ck2998s? (this is a genuine question)
Aluminum onyx and platinum hour indices. --> Are those dials particularly rare and hard to manufacture? I mean I have been bullshitted for so long on enamel grand feu, that I'm quite suspicious now.
Platinum case --> It's not the first Platinum speedy. Far from it.
Meteorite from the moon sub dials. --> Meteorite dials have been used before.

Evitzee · Jul 22, 2019

LeonDeBayonne
I agree with the second sentence. But the first??? Pricing more than 50,000 USD a watch that is made of old designs and parts (correct me if I'm wrong but there is nothing in this watch that has not fit another watch before) leaves room for significant margins.

It all depends on how many of these Pt models they will sell, the price point will limit the sales potential which is why it is not a limited edition or even a numbered edition. And when it is introduced in steel we don't know what the price will be, quite possibly in the $15k range. The 321 will appeal to the purists that populate sites like this, but that is a finite number of fans. If a newbie decides he wants a Speedmaster and goes to a boutique and sees the standard one with the new 3861 movement for maybe $7k or the identical looking 321 one for $15k, and when he finds out the performance on the cheaper one is better (rate, magnetic resistance, etc) he'll pick the cheaper one almost every time, he's not going to be swayed by the 321's razzle-dazzle history of being the 'true' moon watch. Omega has said the production limit of the 321 is pretty low (a few thousand a year) so that in itself will limit production and profit. They could always increase production down the road, of course, but I just don't see the siren appeal of the 321 being that big of a deal once the pent up demand is filled. But we'll have to see how it all plays out; pricing, quantity and demand are all unknown at this point. Considering the current production capability of the 321 I just don't see how it can add that much to Omega's profitability overall. I see it as a very specialized production for a very limited audience which is how Omega has played it so far.

padders · Jul 22, 2019

Foo2rama
Everything is a new part save the special remake of a movement that went out of production over 50 years ago.

Bezel is enamel not printed
aluminum onyx and platinum hour indices.
Platinum case
Meteorite from the moon sub dials.

Not strictly true Foo. The 321 has been in production in modified form elsewhere in the Swatch empire since Lemania was acquired by the forerunner of Swatch and the design handed over to Blancpain or Breguet, I forget which. Omega would have us believe it cost them buckets of cash to raise the 321 from the ashes but the true picture isn't quite as romantic, they just re-appropriated it from another part of Swatch. I think Patek have used it at some point too, though they clearly aren't related.

Martin_J_N · Jul 22, 2019

padders
Not strictly true Foo. The 321 has been in production in modified form elsewhere in the Swatch empire since Lemania was acquired by the forerunner of Swatch and the design handed over to Blancpain or Breguet, I forget which. Omega would have us believe it cost them buckets of cash to raise the 321 from the ashes but the true picture isn't quite as romantic, they just re-appropriated it from another part of Swatch. I think Patek have used it at some point too, though they clearly aren't related.

If my little grey cells are functioning correctly and they probably aren't, I thought that I heard/read somewhere that Breguet had the movement, Omega asked Breguet to make the movement for them, but Breguet couldn't make the quantities Omega wanted so at that point Omega took the decision to go in-house with the movement.

I'm sort of sure that this is what happened, possibly. 😀

Bp5002 · Jul 22, 2019

fskywalker
I assume Omega does not make it a limited edition to keep open the possibility of building more of them if there is the market for that, but for that amount of $ it should at least be a numbered edition

Limited edition you said? I think Omega came out too much BS limited edition just like Panerai.

Toishome · Jul 22, 2019

$18K for SS??? That's some balls. I don't think so. Not for an Omega made of steel or even gold for that matter.

krh7 · Jul 22, 2019

Toishome
$18K for SS??? That's some balls. I don't think so. Not for an Omega made of steel or even gold for that matter.

well, it's not like omega's sell for MSRP ever.

Speedmaster Moonwatch 321 Platinum

SpeedyPhill

queriver

padders

fskywalker

EricCsN

YY77

EricCsN

Evitzee

YY77

Martin_J_N

LeonDeBayonne

Foo2rama

Archer

LeonDeBayonne

Evitzee

padders

Martin_J_N

Bp5002

Toishome

krh7

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