Speedmaster Monza - prototype from 1995

KLXN · Apr 12, 2022

Hi,

I think it's the first time when this one appeared. What do you think? Would you consider it as a real example based on the fact that the only confirmation is email exchange with Omega (without exact content disclosed)?

Source: https://www.phillips.com/detail/omega/CH080122/168

cvalue13 · Apr 12, 2022

A real “prototype”? If they provide the emails from Omega archives saying it’s so, then there’s really no disputing that limited characterization.

Though, sometimes “prototype” is another word for “a ridiculous idea, everyone agreed should never exist.”

tyrantlizardrex · Apr 12, 2022

KLXN
What do you think?

Someone will pay Phillips a lot of money for it.

Which to me is idiotic, but different courses for different horses.

Vercingetorix · Apr 12, 2022

If it’s real tritium then I’d believe it.

Foo2rama · Apr 12, 2022

Omega confirmed to us, via email, that indeed the Monza Speedmaster was a project undertaken by Omega during the 1990s but eventually aborted. Furthermore, after looking at pictures of the watch, they state a lapidary “everything looks correct”.

We are deeply indebted to the Omega Archive for their invaluable support in researching the present piece.

Lol

I mean… that’s not confirmation and Philips knows better or is hiding something.

Let’s see the caseback. But it’s totally possible the Singer who incidentally makes the dial for both watches offered this as an idea to Omega and it was a sample dial. This is not exactly unheard of.

tyrantlizardrex · Apr 12, 2022

Foo2rama
Lol

I mean… that’s not confirmation and Philips knows better or is hiding something.

Let’s see the caseback. But it’s totally possible the Singer who incidentally makes the dial for both watches offered this as an idea to Omega and it was a sample dial. This is not exactly unheard of.

The lack of movement number makes me wonder if this is one of the (many) prototype/sample watches that (allegedly) walked out of the archives under the previous leadership.

ChiefMark · Apr 12, 2022

It's an 1861 movement, but no SN evident on the case or the movement in the pictures. The caseback photo is there @Foo2rama if you go to the listing at Phillips.

Foo2rama · Apr 12, 2022

tyrantlizardrex
The lack of movement number makes me wonder if this is one of the (many) prototype/sample watches that (allegedly) walked out of the archives under the previous leadership.

I didn’t notice that.

C ChiefMark
It's an 1861 movement, but no SN evident on the case or the movement in the pictures. The caseback photo is there @Foo2rama if you go to the listing at Phillips.

I don’t see an inner caseback shot.

vbrad26 · Apr 12, 2022

rolex-cosmograph-daytona-white-dial-stainless-steel-oyster-men_s-watch-116500wso.jpg

x1400000-08a8d894913af98fee953f87b527a7ae.jpg.pagespeed.ic.1K3r6_zhhV.webp

ChiefMark · Apr 12, 2022

Foo2rama
I don’t see an inner caseback shot.

Ahh... sorry. When you said "Let's see the caseback," I failed to insert "inner" into the statement.

dsio · Apr 12, 2022

So its a ‘95, but it has a Cal 1861 based movement which looks different from the 1861 anyway, which came out in ‘96, but there’s not a delrin brake, but it doesn’t look like metal either. Odd watch. It’s rather likely that Omega will be one of the bidders, probably not in their best interests to verify its authenticity too much on that basis.

Foo2rama · Apr 12, 2022

dsio
So its a ‘95, but it has a Cal 1861 based movement which looks different from the 1861 anyway, which came out in ‘96, but there’s not a delrin brake, but it doesn’t look like metal either. Odd watch. It’s rather likely that Omega will be one of the bidders, probably not in their best interests to verify its authenticity too much on that basis.

looks like a delrin brake to me.

watchyouwant · Apr 12, 2022

What is the problem ? Singer Reps had books full of prototype design dials to drum up business..Speedmaster Blancs printed with designer ideas. Same with all Swiss manufacturers. And quite a few of these sample books surfaced for sale . Remember the Tudor chrono dials in different colour schemes, that Watchco auctioned ? Or the white dial Rolex Submariner variants, that fetched mega $$$$$..... Paired with era correct movements and cases and , voila, the Prototypes were auctioned. Like Phillips now calls that " never commercialized..." Nothing new . Part of the investment cycle in vintage Watches. Original Singer dial. Period correct watch. Married. Auction material. Brilliant.

tyrantlizardrex · Apr 12, 2022

watchyouwant
What is the problem ? Singer Reps had books full of prototype design dials to drum up business..Speedmaster Blancs printed with designer ideas. Same with all Swiss manufacturers. And quite a few of these sample books surfaced for sale . Remember the Tudor chrono dials in different colour schemes, that Watchco auctioned ? Or the white dial Rolex Submariner variants, that fetched mega $$$$$..... Paired with era correct movements and cases and , voila, the Prototypes were auctioned. Like Phillips now calls that " never commercialized..." Nothing new . Part of the investment cycle in vintage Watches. Original Singer dial. Period correct watch. Married. Auction material. Brilliant.

I think the twist here might be the sterilised movement... made without a serial (because it was a prototype), or scrubbed of a serial by a seller (because it's a loose dial inserted into a production watch).

I think the most interesting thing here is how far bidders will be willing to drive this up, given that no evidence of its providence as a prototype can be produced.

Ready the popcorn.

Archer · Apr 12, 2022

“Prototype”. The word is enough to make any collector’s heart beat faster, and with good reason.

Fixed it for them below...

“Prototype”. The word is enough to make any collector’s eyes roll, and with good reason."

Archer · Apr 12, 2022

Foo2rama
looks like a delrin brake to me.

Yes, definitely.

Archer · Apr 12, 2022

So let's look at that escape wheel bridge, where the serial number should be...

The red arrows show the relative height of the anglage that has been applied to the barrel and wheel train bridge, as compared to the escape wheel bridge. The blue arrows show the relative depth of the chamfer applied to the screw holes for the chronograph bridge, and the escape wheel bridge. There's also a small gap underneath the tail end of the coupling yoke - that isn't normal.

Having serviced hundreds of these, my conclusion is that the serial number has been machined off the escape wheel bridge, and finish reapplied...

tyrantlizardrex · Apr 12, 2022

Archer
Having serviced hundreds of these, my conclusion is that the serial number has been machined off the escape wheel bridge, and finish reapplied...

I'd been starting at pictures of 1861s and wondering about this!

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Al. 👍

S.H. · Apr 12, 2022

Cool parts bin special indeed... wonder how well it runs as it is now.

😜

You'd think an unused omega prototype would be clear of junk between gear teeth.

Darlinboy · Apr 12, 2022

Speedmaster Monza - prototype from 1995

KLXN

cvalue13

tyrantlizardrex

Vercingetorix

Foo2rama

tyrantlizardrex

ChiefMark

Foo2rama

vbrad26

ChiefMark

dsio

Foo2rama

watchyouwant

tyrantlizardrex

Archer

Archer

Archer

tyrantlizardrex

S.H.

Darlinboy

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