Speedmaster Mark II with No Serial

wsfarrell · Oct 5, 2016

Just bought this nice Speedmaster Mark II on eBay for cheap. Omega performed a complete service on this a month ago (documentation was included in the sale)---movement overhaul, light case polish, new hands and crystal---all else is original. In their "remarks on condition of your watch" Omega said (among other things):

--Watch has been serviced by 3rd party
--Work was not in conformance with Omega standards
--Serial number on the movement has been removed

Here's a picture of the dial, just for reference:

And here's a picture of the movement:

This is the first time I've ever seen anything like this. I don't think there was ever a serial on that bridge; the finish is perfectly uniform. There is a number 4 engraved on it. I don't think Omega did that during the service; there's a service number written in marker pen on the inside caseback. Any ideas as to what's going on?

bnabod · Oct 5, 2016

Not sure what happened: replacement part on a stolen watch were serialized part was removed as to conceal the issue?

Needs a serious service though the gasket for the case back has turned to goo. The minute hand seems to extend too far out
Good luck figuring it out

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Archer · Oct 5, 2016

Omega policy states that they will not service a watch where the serial number has been removed from the movement, unless there is still one on the case, and these don't have serial numbers on the case. That, and the residue in the groove for the case seal make me seriously wonder if it was serviced at an Omega service centre...

Minute hand length is fine...I have one of these in the shop right now with original tritium hands and it's exactly the same.

wsfarrell · Oct 5, 2016

Archer
Omega policy states that they will not service a watch where the serial number has been removed from the movement, unless there is still one on the case, and these don't have serial numbers on the case. That, and the residue in the groove for the case seal make me seriously wonder if it was serviced at an Omega service centre...

Minute hand length is fine...I have one of these in the shop right now with original tritium hands and it's exactly the same.

My picture isn't the best: there may be some corrosion, but there's no residue present. And here's a pic of the Omega service document. Could have been faked, I suppose, but I don't think so.

Archer · Oct 5, 2016

wsfarrell
My picture isn't the best: there may be some corrosion, but there's no residue present. And here's a pic of the Omega service document. Could have been faked, I suppose, but I don't think so.

Okay, maybe it's the crappy photo having some artifacts in it, but it looks like goopy seal residue in the case groove...posting a better, more complete photo would help...

As for Omega servicing the watch, I am just relaying the policy - up to you to decide what to do with that information. Clearly a Mk. II was serviced recently as the documentation shows, but was it this Mk. II? Without a serial number there's no way to know.

If Omega serviced it, doesn't look like the did a really good job - crystal doesn't appear to line up properly, and neither does the chrono seconds hand, or the minute recorder hand...can't tell with the hour recorder.

bnabod · Oct 5, 2016

well it seems they did service something and they do call out the lack of serial number.
if you got it for a seriously good deal like < 1000 bucks for a watch that someone spent $840 on Aug 18 2016 then something seems fishy to me but I could be too suspicious.

wsfarrell · Oct 5, 2016

Criticize the quality of the Omega service all you want---that's beside the point. The point (as stated in the title) concerns the lack of serial number on the movement. Has anyone seen something like this?

Archer · Oct 5, 2016

wsfarrell · Oct 5, 2016

Most helpful.

bnabod · Oct 5, 2016

wsfarrell
Most helpful.

I am no expert but what possible answer can there be for said part w serial to be replaced?
Al would know what that part is and if the part could go bad to the point of no return therefore installing a replacement non serialized part or may be the watch was a not for sale model? I really have no idea but no serial number is not something I would want to mess with but it seems Omega did not follow their own policy and serviced the watch anyway which is odd or maybe they just wanted 840 bucks.

wsfarrell · Oct 5, 2016

bnabod
I am no expert but what possible answer can there be for said part w serial to be replaced?

Good question, and that's why I started the thread. I did some searching beforehand, and couldn't find anything on missing serials. I did find a thread on an unusual serial---started with "R," I think---but came up empty on missing serials. The best theory I can come up with is: the watch originally had a 28 or 29 million serial, and someone wanted that serial on their Speedmaster Pro, so they took the bridge off this watch and put it on the Pro. That still doesn't explain why this bridge has no serial. A watchmaker might know about replacement bridges without serials, but our resident watchmaker seemed more interested in criticizing Omega's service quality. As for why Omega serviced the numberless watch, I think you might be right: they wanted the money.

mokofoko · Oct 5, 2016

This doesn't answer your question, but you might stop by a Boutique and bring the invoice with you--ask them to look up the invoice# and confirm whether the information matches? Or just call a service center directly? With all of the issues that Archer listed, you have to at least wonder if it's on the level. They should at least be able to confirm that the name is a match?

If you don't mind a nosy question, could you share just how much you paid for it? If it was more than the going rate (due to the recent servicing), I'd talk the seller down on the price some more--or just return it. I've seen a few pieces sell without a serial, and they seem to go for 50% to 75% of the going rate. Unless you can confirm that the watch was actually serviced, you really shouldn't be paying more than that.

wsfarrell · Oct 5, 2016

mokofoko
This doesn't answer your question, but you might stop by a Boutique and bring the invoice with you--ask them to look up the invoice# and confirm whether the information matches? With all of the issues that Archer listed, you have to at least wonder if it's on the level. They should at least be able to confirm that the name is a match?

If you don't mind a nosy question, could you share just how much you paid for it? If it was more than the going rate (due to the recent servicing), I'd talk the seller down on the price some more--or just return it. I've seen a few pieces sell without a serial, and they seem to go for 50% to 75% of the going rate. Unless you can confirm that the watch was actually serviced, you really shouldn't be paying more than that.

Here's a picture of the caseback with the service number on it:

If you're a conspiracy theorist, you could imagine that the seller went to some considerable trouble to fake an Omega receipt and open the caseback to add the number. Having corresponded with the seller, I know this is not the case. This watch was serviced by Omega, period. I'd rather not get into price, as that would further derail this thread. As in "WHAT??? You paid xxx dollars for that piece of crap without a serial number???" I thought the price was quite reasonable, and I really like the watch. I don't care at all about the lack of serial number, as I don't plan to sell it. I am very curious about the missing serial though, simply because I've never heard of anything like it.

Archer · Oct 6, 2016

wsfarrell
A watchmaker might know about replacement bridges without serials, but our resident watchmaker seemed more interested in criticizing Omega's service quality.

When a company cuts of material houses of spare parts under the guise of keeping up the quality, and does the kind of job done on this watch, they deserve to be criticized. My advice would be to take advantage of the warranty, and send it to Omega and have them fix the shoddy work.

I answered your question - you asked if anyone had seen this before, and I said yes. I could certainly speculate on what happened, but I wouldn't want to be accused of adding any conspiracy theories to this thread...and I can't spend all my time posting on forums after all...

bnabod · Oct 6, 2016

wsfarrell
Here's a picture of the caseback with the service number on it:

If you're a conspiracy theorist, you could imagine that the seller went to some considerable trouble to fake an Omega receipt and open the caseback to add the number. Having corresponded with the seller, I know this is not the case. This watch was serviced by Omega, period. I'd rather not get into price, as that would further derail this thread. As in "WHAT??? You paid xxx dollars for that piece of crap without a serial number???" I thought the price was quite reasonable, and I really like the watch. I don't care at all about the lack of serial number, as I don't plan to sell it. I am very curious about the missing serial though, simply because I've never heard of anything like it.

Looks like a escape wheel bridge and online you can get them.

Take it to an Omega boutique and get them to check the paper work and ensure it is truthful. Since u have reasonable trust in the seller then most likely it is a correct invoice and so on. Someone as you mentioned may have swapped it w another model to make some dough and all they had left was a plain Jane part.

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dialstatic · Oct 6, 2016

wsfarrell
I did find a thread on an unusual serial---started with "R," I think---but came up empty on missing serials

I realise this isn't particularly helpful, but I know that replacement rotors on Omega's 1040 calibers have a sort of 'replacement serial number' that starts with R stamped on top. This doesn't relate to the original serial number, nor is it Omega's internal part number for the rotor as far as I can tell. It's kind of annoying as the rotor is the only place that has a serial number on it for that movement, so you can't check approx. age, order an extract or ensure the watch matches the papers if you buy one with a replacement rotor.

As for the consipiracy theory: the receipt looks exactly like several genuine receipts I have. Not that they would be particularly hard to fake, but if one were so inclined, one likely wouldn't point out the absence of the serial in the remarks (or at least come up with the good reason for it).

photo500 · Oct 6, 2016

I don't believe the serial was defaced, the finish and plating are untouched, that escape wheel bridge was replaced. Have seen a couple like this. Remember Omega did not make that movement, Lemania did. As such there are many variations of it out there from brands that had different policies or ways of marking replacement parts. That bridge is likely from one of those imo. Its anyone's guess what happened to the original or why it was changed.

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wsfarrell · Oct 6, 2016

photo500
I don't believe the serial was defaced, the finish and plating are untouched, that escape wheel bridge was replaced. Have seen a couple like this. Remember Omega did not make that movement, Lemania did. As such there are many variations of it out there from brands that had different policies or ways of marking replacement parts. That bridge is likely from one of those imo. Its anyone's guess what happened to the original or why it was changed.

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Good info, thanks.

rogart · Oct 7, 2016

Isn't there a extra jewel on the intermediate gear bridge also? So it's a 18 jewels movement? Then the movement would be a 1861?
Coupling wheel bridge is the right name 😀

padders · Oct 7, 2016

wsfarrell
Criticize the quality of the Omega service all you want---that's beside the point. The point (as stated in the title) concerns the lack of serial number on the movement. Has anyone seen something like this?

Perhaps another way of interpreting Archer's comments is that there is considerable evidence to suggest the watch you show wasn't serviced by Omega at all...

Speedmaster Mark II with No Serial

wsfarrell

bnabod

Archer

wsfarrell

Archer

bnabod

wsfarrell

Archer

wsfarrell

bnabod

wsfarrell

mokofoko

wsfarrell

Archer

bnabod

dialstatic

photo500

wsfarrell

rogart

padders

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