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Speedmaster double ref 105.003-64 / 145.003 SP ?

Passover
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Hi stumbled across this one (just curious, no intention to buy it)

s-l1600.jpg

Couldn't find another example with this double ref. (only 105.003-65 / 145.003), so what do the pros think?

Serial is 25449741; wrong chrono hand and wrong crown, complete listing here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Om...832775?hash=item2d0ace7c87:g:aWIAAOSwaThesxm2

s-l1600.jpg
Edited:
 
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Davidt
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I can't recall another example of the 145.003 being stamped in the case back. Clearly not contemporary to the other standings but it looks of a reasonable quality so may be factory.

Strangely the watch itself doesn't match either reference
 
Davidt
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The 145.003 reference is seen in hang tags and in brochures every now and again, but the actual stamping is something else.
 
padders
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Davidt Davidt
The 145.003 reference is seen in hang tags and in brochures every now and again, but the actual stamping is something else.
I think the significance is that here it appears on a -64 iteration rather then the more logical -65. I too have seen several late production -65s double marked but never a -64. The internal Ed White numbering change over was presumably circa 1967 ( poss with the intro of the Pro 145.012-67) so you have to ask what the hell a -64 back is doing on the shelf that late unless they decided to use up some parts stocks.

Whatever, as you say it’s on the wrong watch, pity as that would offer further info.
 
Davidt
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I recall a previous thread where someone suggested that the addition of the 'sp' stamp may indicate the uprated pushers or spécial poussoir at a subsequent Omega service. I've no idea whether there's any truth to this.
 
Passover
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padders padders
I think the significance is that here it appears on a -64 iteration rather then the more logical -65.

That was my point, thanks!
 
kov
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My vote goes to a bunch of put together parts.

We have a professional case like new, a dial that looks like a service professional dial to my eye, a wrong sweeping hand, pushers that look new, a service crown, movement that is from somewhen in 1967... I think that caseback has nothing to do with the rest of parts of this watch.

Another assumption would be : the only original parts remaining from a former 105.003-64 are movement and caseback -> that watch was sent back to factory after serious damage decades ago -> factory replaced everything except movement and caseback and since they used a professional case and parts they added 145.003 SP to reflect the case and pushers.

There is a good risk that this watch will never get an Extract from Omega Archives though 😀
 
padders
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It does make the sellers claim of 'all original' look a little suspect lol. This would be a beginner level learn how to fish watch.
Edited:
 
Davidt
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The watch is what it is, but the case back is still very interesting.

It’s a good point about it being a -64 and not a -65, which may make is less likely Omega did this at the factory prior to sale, particularly as the authors of MWO have stated the change from 105 to 145 was simply a change to the internal reference/mapics system and did not manifest in new stamps in the case back.

I can only recall one other example of the 145.003 being stamped in the case back but I can’t find the thread/picture now. Are there other examples?
 
mac_omega
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isn´t the serial 25449741 far too high for a -64 ?? I would rather expect more like 20 - 22.xxxxxx
Edited:
 
kov
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mac_omega mac_omega
isn´t the serial 25449741 far too high for a -64 ?? I would rather expect more like 20 - 22.xxxxxx

It is. And that's why my main theory is complete put-together.

upload_2020-5-8_16-31-43.png


Still, outliers aren't impossible... an old stock case used to assemble a watch in 1967-ish like I wrote above and here we are.
 
ndgal
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The dial print is all wrong. I vote for a complete re-dial.
One of the more decent ones - Yes. Original - No.

Edited:
 
chronoboy64
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+ 1 for a cobbled together watch.
ref. 105.003 and 145.003 are both pre professional straight lug models.
IMHO it is more than stupid to state that this watch is all original.
 
kov
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chronoboy64 chronoboy64
IMHO it is more than stupid to state that this watch is all original.

Had this conversation with a dealer I know quite well here in Switzerland. He showed me something of this kind, a fully cobbled together watch, and was claiming it all original so we had a debate about it.

At the end of the day I realized that the meaning of his « all original » was that all the parts were genuine Omega parts. Allthough if they don’t all belong together in the sens of a particular model produced as such by Omega, all the parts are original (genuine) Omega and nothing's fake or repro. 🤦

Can’t say if he’s right or wrong but playing with words like that introduces another pitfall for buyers with a little knowledge... 👎
 
Patrik83
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kov kov
At the end of the day I realized that the meaning of his « all original » was that all the parts were genuine Omega parts. Allthough if they don’t all belong together in the sens of a particular model produced as such by Omega, all the parts are original (genuine) Omega and nothing's fake or repro. 🤦

Can’t say if he’s right or wrong but playing with words like that introduces another pitfall for buyers with a little knowledge... 👎

Well with cars it is even worse. An original part is a part made by the manufacturer or one of a different manufacturer but of better quality than the one made by the manufacturer. 🤦
 
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