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(Sort of) 5 Speedmaster Bracelets Reviewed

  1. Longbow Oct 13, 2020

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    Watches come with all sorts of weird and wonderful functions, some more useful than others, but perhaps the most import one of all is a means of attaching a head to ones.......wrist, obviously....unless you name is @Mad Dog, in which case all manner of body parts are fair game.

    Photo 01.JPEG

    Generally speaking we are talking about straps: leather straps, fabric straps, oddly complex NATO straps, Zulu straps, straps with pin buckles, deployant clasps or even hook and loop (aka Velcro) fastenings, as favored by Astronauts and skateboarding airline pilots.

    But as soon as we change these materials to metal, we are into the world of bracelets.

    Really, bracelet? Why does it have to be called a bracelet? Little brace? We are not talking here about some sort of miniaturized orthodontic device for a Hollywood starlet. It is such a dainty sounding word evoking images of those filigree golden arm adornments worn by beautiful maidens in long flowing dresses throughout the ages. Isn’t there a more fitting, epic name for this thing-of-steel that should securely attach horological icons to the wrists of men of great deeds, as well as us mere mortals? An axe is aggressive, the hammer heroic... Why not a name, that even by its mere utterance fills one with courage and aspirations to engage in acts of daring do, jousting with the forces of darkness and.......sorry what was this thread supposed to be about? Oh yes, a review of several Speedmaster-to-wrist attachment devices made of precious Swiss metal, well Steel at any rate.

    But before I dive in, I would just like to give a pointer to some other great bracelet review threads of relevance here on OF: -
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/need-input-for-speedmaster-bracelet-design.100804/
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/forstner-bands-relaunched.102101/

    and of course, this jolly excellent one by @eugeneandresson
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...tnerbands-flatlink-a-pictorial-review.120591/

    and a couple of off-site threads that may be of interest: -
    https://www.fratellowatches.com/legendary-vintage-bracelets-omega-reference-1039/
    http://omega-addict.com/reviews/bracelets/

    My feeble offering picks up where eugeneandresson’s ends. Hopefully, I will not be duplicating too much but rather complementing what has already been said/shown.

    In the previous thread the focus was exclusively on the 1035-style flatlink bracelets from Omega, Uncle Seiko and Forstner. Both the US and Forstner bracelets have deviated from the original Omega design in that they employ solid rather than hollow/folded links, but the Forstner goes even further in that it also uses solid end links, which takes it a bit further away from the original Omega reference design. This is my justification for widening the comparative review a little, since the Omega 1450 also has a vintage clasp but solid links/end links and if we are going to widen things anyway we might just as well throw in the Uncle Seiko Mexico Holzer and the current Omega Speedmaster bracelet to round things out. To that end I have prepared a little comparison between several contemporary, vintage re-issues and neo-vintage or perhaps transitional Speedmaster bracelets.

    So, folks, these are the beasties I will be talking about: -
    Photo 2.JPEG

    From top to bottom in the above image we have: -
    1. My original short, micro-adjusting Omega clasp from the 2020 Tokyo Olympics Speedmaster (Part Number: STZ004666 yes really “666”), followed by the original Tokyo Speedmaster Omega bracelet with a longer micro-adjusting clasp (part number: STZ001154)
    2. The Omega 1450 bracelet and 808 end links that came with my 1990 Speedy
    3. Forstner Flatlink
    4. Uncle Seiko Flatlink US 1035
    5. Uncle Seiko Mexico Holzer

    First question. What sort of packaging can I expect with the aftermarket bracelets? These two images should suffice as an answer.

    Photo 3.JPEG
    Fully adequate solution from Uncle Seiko. Both the Holzer and the Flatlink arrived like this. Note that the German “ZOLL” is a reminder that these Uncle Seiko bracelets are still direct import items from the USA, so import duties will have to be added to the nominal price.

    Photo 4.JPEG
    Nice packaging from Forstner, but honestly, unnecessary (I think the packaging is already in the bin).

    Both Omega bracelets came attached to their respective Speedmasters, complete with the original packaging, which was somewhat larger, as one would expect (won’t be wearing any of that packaging either).

    So where to start? Maybe with the OEM new one, the benchmark (1450), the newcomers? Well, I was intrigued by a statement in the original thread, namely “the central links of the US/FB have the same width” and then read that the end links are interchangeable between the US and Forstner flatlink bracelets. I guess that makes sense since they replicate the same original bracelet, but I can report that the setup of the US Flatlink revealed some subtle but useful differences between the two that fixed a small problem for me (I’ll get to this later). Anyway, since each of these bracelets has its pros and cons, I shall just start somewhere and see, in “Ronnie Corbett rambling end story” fashion, where the journey takes me. So here is my arbitrarily chosen starting point: The Tokyo Panda was in it’s box, the US Flatlink was lurking somewhere in German customs in Frankfurt and I had already configured the Uncle Seiko Mexico Holzer to be approximately the same size as my 1450/808 setup, leaving me to deal with the over-long Forstner flat link. So that’s the beginning of today’s adventure.

    Photo 5.JPEG

    Like many of you that have been following these re-release bracelet threads I also read that some members were experiencing difficulties re-sizing the Forstner bracelet due to an unusual link fastening approach and some apparently reluctant thread-lock. Let’s take a look at opening the links on the Forstner. We first need to split this: -

    Photo 6.JPEG

    taking out the desired number of excess links: -

    Photo 7.jpg

    And now we can see how the links are held together: by long, internally threaded tubes attached to much shorter screws that pass through all three link elements. Close up they look like this: -

    Photo 8.JPG

    That image doesn’t quite give you the context of how small these little suckers are so…

    Photo 9.JPG
    Once screwed together and tight that whole tube/screw assembly will rotate inside the links, it is not attached to one or other of the outer links. Therein lies the first challenge for the DIYer. If you thought this might work, you would be wrong.

    Photo 10.JPEG

    You will need two screwdrivers (1.5mm wide or thereabouts) to open/close the links and either a steady hand or some sort of jig/fixture for holding things still relative to one another.

    Photo 11.JPEG

    I managed this by holding a fixed screwdriver against the short screw, the bracelet between my fingers and turning the threaded tube with a second screwdriver in the other hand (a watchmaker’s screwdriver with rotating head helps here).
    Photo 12.JPEG

    Putting things back together again is an equally fiddly but eminently achievable job. The trick I found was to set the long tube into the links first, this holds everything together then simply push the short screw into the opposing hole.

    Photo 13.JPEG

    This will cause the long, threaded tube to push out slightly but that is OK as it will still be holding the links together.

    Photo 14.JPEG

    If you now set the second screwdriver into the tube’s slotted head and rotate it counterclockwise you will feel a small click which is where the thread starts. At this point you can start rotating clockwise to close and tighten the screws.

    If you try putting the small screw in with the long tube full inserted through the links you will find that the small screw just falls over and is a devil to get seated properly.

    Photo 15.JPEG

    That’s the Forstner sized and out of the way (for now), so let’s have a look at the Uncle Seiko Flatlink sizing. There’s not too much to report here as each link is held in place by a simple split pin with one rounded and one flared end (the opposite end to the one you tap with a hammer to push the pin out of the links).

    Photo 16.JPEG

    Here I shall confess to having managed to screw up this simple task. I managed to drive one of the split pins into the links from the wrong side, but it survived and was re-installed the correct way around without any obvious adverse side effects.

    Photo 17.JPEG

    Photo 18.JPEG

    Some issues already flagged up by others include: -

    The hinged section of the Forstner clasp showing when the bracelet is folded and closed. The first image below shows how it should look. Note: I fitted a spare Omega outer clasp cover to the Forstner flatlink bracelet to make the point clearer, so that is a hint to all that this swap is both possible and simple to perform): -

    Photo 19.JPEG

    And how it looks wearing its correct Forstner clasp cover: -

    Photo 20.JPEG

    This “problem” has its origins in two design aspects in my opinion. The first lies with the shape of the inner folded section of the clasp; it is not waisted like similar vintage clasps from Omega and the equivalent from Uncle Seiko, but rather straight.

    Photo 21.JPEG

    This means that the Forstner clasp must somehow hide a wider hinge than either the 1450 Omega or the Uncle Seiko clasps. How much of a difference are we talking about here? Here’s the Forstner: -

    Photo 22.JPEG

    the Uncle Seiko clasp (the Mexico Holzer and Flatlink are the same in all but the etched text): -

    Photo 23.JPEG

    and an Omega 1450 clasp for comparison: -

    Photo 24.JPEG

    The second part of the cause is the way and the extent to which the outer clasp cover wraps around the folded inner section of the clasp. If you view the micro-adjustment hole positioning on either of the Uncle Seiko or Forstner Clasp covers you will see they are more or less in the center of the clasp flanks.

    Photo 25.jpg

    However, with the Omega 1450 (shown top in the above image) these micro-adjustment holes are placed high on the clasp flanks, causing a significant overlap with the folded inner clasp. This allows the clasp to better center and constrain the inner clasp elements, something not so easily achieved by the others. You can see (bottom clasp in the image above) how little coverage the Uncle Seiko Mexico Holzer outer clasp covers the inner clasp, although it benefits from a narrower hinge than the Forstner. Speaking of US Holzer (lack of) overlap, when I first installed the Holzer on my Speedy the clasp was on the wrong hole setting with the result that it managed to catch a bit of wrist flesh, hence the little scar (now gone by the way).

    Photo 26a.JPEG

    You will also notice that there is a discernable gap between the six o’clock bracelet side and the clasp on the US Mexico Holzer. The same is true for the US Flatlink,

    Photo 26b.JPEG

    but not so for the Forstner Flatlink bracelet.

    There are a few other notable things to point out about the Forstner bracelet. The first is, in this review company at least, unique. The Forster possess stretch or sprung links. Closed they look like this: -

    Photo 27.JPEG

    Under some tension, they will stretch to this: -

    Photo 28.JPEG

    As mentioned earlier the Forstner also has solid end links rather like the Omega 1450,

    Photo 29.jpg

    where both Uncle Seiko bracelets have simple folded end links.

    Since the talk is mostly about flatlink bracelets it might be of interest to know just how flat these things are on the skin side. Well…

    Photo 30.JPEG

    The current Speedy bracelet (in the forground) has quite large center links so I guess it feels fairly flat. In terms of “flatness feel” I would put the two flatlink offerings from Uncle Seiko and Forstner ahead of both the Mexico Holzer and the standard Omega bracelet, but this game is won hands down by the Omega 1450. And yet if you were to flip them all over the 1450 would win for roughest and maybe the Uncle Seiko Flatlink for smoothest.

    Ha, I almost forgot to discuss how these bracelets fit to the watch head. So the state of play in the Longbow collection:-

    The Omega 1450 fits like a dream on my regular Speedy but it doesn’t fit on the Tokyo Panda as the 808 end links are too wide for the Panda’s lugs.

    The Uncle Seiko Mexico Holzer fits my regular Speedy from the 90s with a fair bit of a gap.

    Photo 31.JPEG

    The Forstner Flatlink also fits with a bit of a gap on the regular Speedy

    Photo 32.JPEG

    But sometimes odd things can happen here and it’s this: -

    Photo 33.JPEG

    Photo 34a.JPEG

    Photo 34b.JPEG

    No manner of jiggling and/or poking is going to improve this situation. This is a watch off, bracelet off watch and spring bar out of end link sort of problem.

    Just in case this is starting to feel like Forstner bashing I have to say that I have not yet successfully mounted the Uncle Seiko Flatlink on my 90s Speedy; the spring bar simple will not seat correctly. I can do one ……

    Photo 35.JPG

    …but not both

    Photo 36.JPG

    Photo 37.JPG

    I suppose I just need to do a bit of judicious bending and maybe filing to make things fit.

    But there is the trick, and it lies in the observation made in the original thread by @eugeneandresson, the end links are interchangeable. Actually, the last Uncle Seiko center link is slightly narrower than it’s Forstner counterpart so it is possible to mount the US Flatlink on my Speedy, albeit with the help of the Forstner end link (plus a small gap)

    Photo 38.JPG

    Photo 39.JPG

    Ah yes, I forgot to mention, my Forstner has polished outer links the US is fully brushed, so the combo does look a little odd.

    I suspect the fully brushed US Flatlink would look fantastic on the Tokyo Panda, but I haven’t worked up the courage to try it for real yet (only as a sort of dry run without fully mounting the spring bars).

    Photo 40 (2).JPEG

    The US Mexico Holzer isn’t such a great look in this combo in my opinion.

    Photo 41.JPEG

    I suspect the fully brushed US Flatlink bracelet will (eventually) look good

    Photo 42.JPG

    So where am I now after this somewhat convoluted journey? The Forstner looks great but has a few minor niggles that could do with being ironed out in future iterations. The Uncle Seiko offerings come very close to perfection…or rather will come close when I figure out how to fix the end link issue.

    Photo 43.JPEG

    The Omega 1450, which I haven’t said so much about, is just awesome and the regular contemporary Omega Speedmaster bracelet is, well, er, well-known to most I guess.

    While I think there are still a few development iterations to go before the offerings from Uncle Seiko and Forstner are niggle-free, the fact that I am able to do any sort of review of vintage re-release bracelets is a testimony to the enthusiasm that OmegaForums generates and to that end I would like to thank all of those that had some hand in bringing these bracelets back to market.

    Cheers !

    Longbow
     
  2. BlackTalon This Space for Rent Oct 13, 2020

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    That
    was friggin' awesome!

    That's a lot for such a detailed comparison!
     
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  3. Longbow Oct 13, 2020

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    Thanks! Actually it was less than a half of what I was thinking of posting. There was a whole bunch of stuff on the 1450 and regular bracelet but it's 10 past 3 in the morning and I guess I need to sleep at some point. The original post from @eugeneandresson saved me a whole bunch of time and effort.
     
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  4. Pazzo Oct 13, 2020

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    @Longbow - Thank you for your time and effort to put this info together for us.
     
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  5. M'Bob Oct 13, 2020

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    Fabulous. These don’t come often from you, but when they do, they never disappoint.
     
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  6. neilfrancis Oct 14, 2020

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    :thumbsup: another example of what makes OF so, so great. :thumbsup:
     
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  7. Marsimaxam Oct 14, 2020

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    Enjoyed reading your review and greatly appreciate your time and effort.
     
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  8. SurvivingJoe Oct 14, 2020

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    Nice Review, it takes quite a time to finish the job.
     
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  9. w@tcher Oct 14, 2020

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    Great review!!!

    Thanks for your effort to show us every detail...
     
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  10. rob#1 Oct 14, 2020

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    Excellent post, thank you sir :thumbsup:
     
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  11. loudbryan44 Oct 14, 2020

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    awesome detail thank you
     
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  12. Bauhaus Oct 14, 2020

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    Fantastic review! Very helpful.
     
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  13. Pazzo Oct 14, 2020

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    Interesting...in a way!
    What spring bars are you using, if I may ask?
     
  14. Longbow Oct 14, 2020

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    The ones supplied by each respective manufacturer.
     
  15. Longbow Oct 14, 2020

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    Here are a few more images that didn't make it into the original post.

    1.JPG

    2.JPEG 3.JPEG 4.JPG 5.JPG 6.JPG 7.JPG 8.JPG 9.JPG 10.JPG 11.JPG 12.JPG IMG_7594 (2).JPEG IMG_7647 (2).JPEG P1010755 (2).JPG P1010764 (2).JPG P1010765 (2).JPG P1010768 (2).JPG P1010769 (2).JPG P1010771 (2).JPG P1010775.JPG

    and just to show that I finally went for it and installed, er, I guess you could call it an Uncle Forstner Flatlink OmegaForums special (US fully brushed bracelet and half brushed/polished Forstner end links) on my Tokyo Panda
    IMG_7722.jpg
     
    Edited Oct 14, 2020
  16. Pazzo Oct 14, 2020

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    Okay, thank you.
    Did you notice any difference in overall length or tip length between the two pairs of the supplied spring bars?
     
  17. watchswede Oct 15, 2020

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    Thank you for giving us your time and insights! Very helpful review :)
     
  18. Longbow Oct 15, 2020

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    Yes, but I don’t think that is the cause of the problem...I tried several types, not just the US or Forstner supplied ones.

    99BC4816-AD35-4371-A9E9-8FB294A32F0E.jpeg

    I believe the distance between the end link hole center line and curved case edge is just too large. This might be due to the way the spring bar holes have been folded or just manufacturing tolerance issues generally.

    I did wonder if maybe slightly thinner spring bars would help but mine all have an OD of 1.7mm regardless of the unsprung length.
    F40DFCBB-2E59-4BF5-B308-42AE29AB4EFE.jpeg

    Did you spot the proper Omega spring bars? They are way nicer than most of the generic ones and easily identifiable
    6D4D65D8-1D97-4641-B73D-FFDB384057C3.jpeg 91D55DD0-9D05-4AF8-B41B-61525B1741AC.jpeg
     
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  19. Pazzo Oct 15, 2020

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    Yes, I did in fact. I've a pair tucked away.
    From your last 2 images, yours seem to be a tad longer by 0.05mm on both images, probably making them to be the 068st2208.

    I gather, if I'm not mistaken on this Forum, that the 068st2207 are to be used on steel bracelets.

    EDIT - But looking at your images again, in this case, I too am not sure now whether the shorter ones would make any difference. Did you try to widen a touch the area the spring bar goes through?
    In the meantime, I hope you will find a remedy to this "issue" and maybe you would like to share.
     
    Edited Oct 15, 2020
  20. crumbsnatcher74 Oct 18, 2020

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    @Longbow I was thinking about getting an Omega clasp when I order the Forstner for my FOIS, but I thought I read in another thread that Omega clasps wouldn't work on the Forstner flat link bracelet because it uses a different clasp locking mechanism than the US and Omega. Is that not the case? However, your review and picture above seems to indicate that the clasp swap is possible. Would you be able to post a picture of the Forstner hinged end where the top clasp clips on in a side by side with the US? Did you have to do any modification to get the Omega clasp to work on the Forstner bracelet? What's the Omega part # for the clasp you used? Thanks for the detailed review of these bracelets!
     
    Edited Oct 18, 2020