Solar

kippyk · Aug 22, 2020

My 2 biggest concerns about solar:

If the panels go on the roof, what about long-term maintenance and roof repair? Will the roof be damaged by the panels? You are damaging the roof by installing them. When will the roof need to be replaced?

In many parts of the country, installers will sign a lease with the homeowners so the cost of installation is very little. These leases are impossible to break and will lower the value of your house in case you sell. The breakup clause is ridiculous. Many buyers (the majority) think they are ugly.

BlackTalon · Aug 22, 2020

pdxleaf
My wife and I have thought about renting out several times. Every renter seems to think the landlord is sitting on a pile of cash instead of another family trying to make it work.

Been there, done that. Many renters assume the owners are part of the Rockefeller family and can easily absorb bounced rent checks, AC system replacement bills due to tenant neglect, etc.

pdxleaf · Aug 22, 2020

kippyk
My 2 biggest concerns about solar:

If the panels go on the roof, what about long-term maintenance and roof repair? Will the roof be damaged by the panels? You are damaging the roof by installing them. When will the roof need to be replaced?

Definitely part of the equation. There are different styles of attachments that have been designed to not leak. Panels are designed to be removed and not heavy. But that is a factor if you have to replace a roof. Ideally you would have a newer long lifed roof. But minimum is generally 10 years left. I don't think this is considered damaging the roof because the roof still functions as expected and doesn't lose properties. It adds expense to a reroof.

kippyk
...Many buyers (the majority) think they are ugly.

Like watches, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.😉

Some buyers could view it negatively for sure. Others will consider it as asset that increases the value of the house. It would be interesting to know if realtors have any data on the impact to resell.

BatDad · Aug 22, 2020

I bought a home in 2015 that already had solar. We live inside the 128. The solar account was easily swapped to us a few days after we closed.

We used to get a rebate on our electricity of $800 a quarter before we installed A/C. Now we’re running a rebate around 300-400 qtr amortized over the year.

effectively we have no energy bills.

On one side of the house, which is south facing, no tree obstructions. Maybe 18 panels from memory.

only outlay I’ve had in that time was when we had construction and had to move the meter and external cut off switch.

Long story short - I love it.

BlackTalon · Aug 22, 2020

If there roof has asphalt shingles. they will nail right through them and 'seal' the holes with roofing cement or sealant. As a roofing guy this bugs the heck out of me.

BatDad · Aug 22, 2020

You know, stupidly, I’ve never thought about how they’re attached. But you’re right, it makes sense the supporting structure is just banged into the roof.

Alls I will say - I never had a leak in the attic. But we did insulate a few years back with high R value sheets and blown in material. Maybe I’m sitting on a problem!!

Walrus · Aug 22, 2020

BlackTalon
If there roof has asphalt shingles. they will nail right through them and 'seal' the holes with roofing cement or sealant. As a roofing guy this bugs the heck out of me.

What do you think a better option would be if one exists to attach them

BlackTalon · Aug 22, 2020

You won't really get one in a residential installation. Ideally frames on posts that can be properly flashed into the roofing system. Requires structural analysis due to the point loads on the trusses/ rafters.

pdxleaf · Aug 22, 2020

mine are attached under the tabs with a cover above that holds the post

Walrus · Aug 22, 2020

Thank you both this is information I will compare between companies. The roof is probably 10 years old if I remember correctly.

vintage hab · Aug 22, 2020

This should be a financial decision: how much does it cost to install? And how much money will you save/make? From there, you can calculate the pay pack period (ie how long it takes to get your money back). A key factor in your decision is how long you intend to own the house. Otherwise someone like BatDad will get the benefit ;-)
Personally, i wouldn’t do it unless payback was 5-6 years or less.

Walrus · Aug 22, 2020

vintage hab
This should be a financial decision: how much does it cost to install? And how much money will you save/make? From there, you can calculate the pay pack period (ie how long it takes to get your money back). A key factor in your decision is how long you intend to own the house. Otherwise someone like BatDad will get the benefit ;-)
Personally, i wouldn’t do it unless payback was 5-6 years or less.

You make a good point but in an area known for high electricity rates I would think renting and or selling may be of benefit with solar already in. I don’t live in it so it’s not about me saving on the bill it’s more about future rentals or perhaps selling it. I really do expect some craziness in the housing market I just don’t know when it will hit or how bad or which way, my crystal ball broke again.

BlackTalon · Aug 23, 2020

pdxleaf

mine are attached under the tabs with a cover above that holds the post

Yeah, that is something I would not want to have on my roof. Sure looks like the posts is compressing the shingle, and if there is any movement it will wear into the single. Also interesting to see how debris stays on the roof; without the panels I suspect it would wash off a bit. Anyway, my view on the installation methods of these systems is admittedly largely formed from work in the commercial/ institution sectors, where accelerating the deterioration of a roof can have a lot of financial and operational implications.

Walrus · Aug 23, 2020

BlackTalon
Yeah, that is something I would not want to have on my roof. Sure looks like the posts is compressing the shingle, and if there is any movement it will wear into the single. Also interesting to see how debris stays on the roof; without the panels I suspect it would wash off a bit. Anyway, my view on the installation methods of these systems is admittedly largely formed from work in the commercial/ institution sectors, where accelerating the deterioration of a roof can have a lot of financial and operational implications.

I can’t tell the pitch of pdx roof from the pics but I recently used a solution to get rid of some moss etc. off my roof. I could see how buildup could accumulate under the panels but the roof I’m doing has a serious pitch to it which I think would help. Regardless it is sounding to me these panels have their downsides which seems to be a factor in most things in life.

kippyk · Aug 23, 2020

A minor leak in a roof can create a large amount of damage over time. Designing solar panels for new construction sounds attractive to me. I am extremely skeptical about slapping it on an existing home. I doubt the installers have a team of architects, engineers, and roofing professionals to make sure the installation is correct. The main attraction is to save $ which means the people considering solar panels may be "frugal" to begin with. The solar people need to be "economical" to make the enterprise feasible which means cheap and fast rather than "done correctly".

I have a friend who lives in Hawaii. I believe their power cost is the highest in the country. She says the power company has started to make it difficult for people to install solar because it is cutting into profits. People are using solar to only directly power AC units and not connecting it to the grid to bypass regulations.

Perseus · Aug 23, 2020

The Mrs. and I rent out a home we used to live. While we may live there again someday, I'm not sure I see the value in paying for solar panels which primarily benefits the renters. Additionally, many solar companies are shady. There is so much fine print to go through and issues to address. Do you lease the panels or do you own them? What happens if you move, or a panel fails? What about energy rates? For example, if you produce more energy than you use the company buys that energy from you at X. In winter months, where sun is often reduced, and you use more than you produce you buy energy from the company at 3X. Personally, I find that really obnoxious.

Lastly, the manufacturing of solar panels and batteries is not very green at all. I hope the technology continues to grow and mature, but I'm not ready to spend the money and punch holes in my roof just yet.

Professor · Aug 25, 2020

I'm all for solar power but with the weather here an array of solar panels wouldn't last through the spring and summer wind storms and in the winter they would be unlikely to produce much power while buried under a foot of snow.
Since the hydroelectric dam I get my power from is only a few miles from here solar doesn't offer much beyond novelty.
Wind generators of various sorts are fairly common at homes nearer the lakes, always plenty of air moving down there.

I've read that solar panel arrays in Puerto Rico have been a complete failure.
Not all environments are suited to these.

PS
As for Climate Change, the media has most definitely printed ridiculous exaggerations and totally ignored much historical data.
It may well be both real and a disaster in the making but the low level of reporting and flaming ignorance of some supposed "climate scientists" has obscured the situation and destroyed confidence in their claims.
I remember one paper on the extinction of a species of moth due to climate change, it being found later on that the moths had simply relocated to the next county.
In another case the press decried the disappearance of a vast herd of caribou. They finally got around to asking indigenous hunters and were informed that the herd had simply moved about thirty miles away to greener meadows as they always did at that time of year.
The ridiculous and now long debunked claim of the Nepal earthquakes being caused by glacier ice loss is a prime example.
Also it has been proven that Glacier retreat in Nepal is due to "Grey Ice" caused by centuries of biofuel use in the region not CO2 levels.

PS
For those concerned by Hurricanes of recent decades, read up on "Solano's Storm" and the great Colonial Hurricanes of 1780.
Despite media hype there has not been a single ''unprecedented" weather event anywhere in the last hundred years.

Archer · Aug 25, 2020

Professor
I'm all for solar power but with the weather here an array of solar panels wouldn't last through the spring and summer wind storms and in the winter they would be unlikely to produce much power while buried under a foot of snow.
Since the hydroelectric dam I get my power from is only a few miles from here solar doesn't offer much beyond novelty.
Wind generators of various sorts are fairly common at homes nearer the lakes, always plenty of air moving down there.

I've read that solar panel arrays in Puerto Rico have been a complete failure.
Not all environments are suited to these.

PS
As for Climate Change, the media has most definitely printed ridiculous exaggerations and totally ignored much historical data.
It may well be both real and a disaster in the making but the low level of reporting and flaming ignorance of some supposed "climate scientists" has obscured the situation and destroyed confidence in their claims.
I remember one paper on the extinction of a species of moth due to climate change, it being found later on that the moths had simply relocated to the next county.
In another case the press decried the disappearance of a vast herd of caribou. They finally got around to asking indigenous hunters and were informed that the herd had simply moved about thirty miles away to greener meadows as they always did at that time of year.
The ridiculous and now long debunked claim of the Nepal earthquakes being caused by glacier ice loss is a prime example.
Also it has been proven that Glacier retreat in Nepal is due to "Grey Ice" caused by centuries of biofuel use in the region not CO2 levels.

PS
For those concerned by Hurricanes of recent decades, read up on "Solano's Storm" and the great Colonial Hurricanes of 1780.
Despite media hype there has not been a single ''unprecedented" weather event anywhere in the last hundred years.

Most of this is nonsense.

Even oil companies (Shell for example) realized the dangers of man made climate change decades ago, until they had a change of tactics and started the sort of scientific uncertainty campaign that you have clearly swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

Professor · Aug 25, 2020

Archer
Most of this is nonsense.

I see you are another who avoids historical fact.
There need not be any sort of agenda in not buying every supposedly scientific claim as gospel.
I gave very easily confirmed examples of exaggerations and misinformation promoted by the media.
As for oil companies, do you consider them the latest authority figure to be followed blindly? They learned how to profit from climate hysteria.
Do a little research on actual climate changes over the centuries. You'll find that nothing in the last one hundred plus years is in fact unprecedented.
Get around that little problem with the narrative and you can convince a lot more people.
What do you fail to understand about "It may well be both real and a disaster in the making but the low level of reporting and flaming ignorance of some supposed "climate scientists" has obscured the situation and destroyed confidence in their claims."?
I reserve the right to remain unconvinced.
Since my own carbon footprint is less than that of a Kalahari Bushman I can sit here on the moral high ground and watch those more opinionated than I slug it out with great amusement. Though lately its more like a kindergarten slap fight.

Archer · Aug 25, 2020

Professor
What do you fail to understand about "It may well be both real and a disaster in the making but the low level of reporting and flaming ignorance of some supposed "climate scientists" has obscured the situation and destroyed confidence in their claims."?

Yes, this is the exact uncertainty that oil companies and many governments have propagated.

Solar

kippyk

BlackTalon

pdxleaf

BatDad

BlackTalon

BatDad

Walrus

BlackTalon

pdxleaf

Walrus

vintage hab

Walrus

BlackTalon

Walrus

kippyk

Perseus

Professor

Archer

Professor

Archer

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