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So, how many 2915’s will crawl out......?

kov
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@tyrantlizardrex

1 - Are you omitting David, the Museum Watchmaker, on purpose? I am not referring to the Archives 🤦
2 - Yes, sorry, I don't see. I have a feeling you're stuck on some reference cases and don't want to consider any other possibilities.
3 - If the only thing I can do about it at this stage is to bark about on a public forum, yes. I am not intending to start a crusade against anybody.
4 - Please, I will simply keep quiet and read your posts about injustice from now on.

U ulackfocus
Maybe you come from a country where the culture says it's okay to rip people off, but it's not okay in either mine or Chris' nation

You might be wrong about that... There's nothing different here. 👎

U ulackfocus
These two lines tell me a LOT about your character, kov - and it's not good. How would you like it if you were a victim and nobody helped you?

It already happened my friend. I have been scammed last year and my bank nor authorities haven't really been concerned about it. Indeed, nobody helped me and I know exactly how it feels.

It's sometimes hard for me non-native english speaker to write in these highly sensitive threads - again my thoughts or the way I explain myself are being misinterpreted and that's not good as well.

The only thing I wrote in my first post here was that IF I was the owner of such a watch I would love to know where to knock on and ask for help. It might be here OR it might be the Museum or somebody who knows something about those watches, based on several examples observed. I didn't expect this to escalate so fast. Guys keep calm and enjoy the summer...

s-l225.jpg
 
STANDY
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fireplace = Banned member Tsolot, who would have guessed ☕

F fireplace
Great analysis and that’s where I started ..can anyone show us some early examples
I have 2 at 15499xxx both styles of O

Thx to Jimmy d
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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would really enjoy to go back to the topic as it is a very interesting one, compared to " does this seahamster apollo XXI bracelet make my GF ass look big "

so we have two styles of 0
the prototype pic shows the "ovalish" rounder O
commonly accepted are oval O's with high or low omega

question is now what might be the "first" production version and why ?
 
U
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kov kov
You might be wrong about that... There's nothing different here. 👎

Which is why I said "maybe".

kov kov
s-l225.jpg

Don't rush back! Maybe you and banned-again TsoloT / fireplace can enjoy the summer together.
Edited:
 
alam
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STANDY STANDY
fireplace = Banned member Tsolot, who would have guessed ☕

bummer! another owner of super rare vintage Speedies who is banned and we don’t get to see the goodies 🙁
 
Inox
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Back to topic then:
I think that if you are a collector/enthusiast rather than a collector/dealer, happy enough to have a nice 2915, you might feel that if you sell now you will never again be able to own one.
 
Vintagewtchzilla
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Inox Inox
Back to topic then:
I think that if you are a collector/enthusiast rather than a collector/dealer, happy enough to have a nice 2915, you might feel that if you sell now you will never again be able to own one.

not exactly the topic but a very true statement
 
nonuffinkbloke
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U ulackfocus
@kov it's not okay in either mine or Chris' nation.
'Fakkin hells bells'....😁
I agree with your principle and admire what you are trying to mate.....😁 but you might stretching the moral high ground with that one a bit???😁

Anyway...... are we going to see these watches?
 
STANDY
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nonuffinkbloke nonuffinkbloke
Anyway...... are we going to see these watches?

No......the 40 plus post arguing member was a previous banned member who never showed us any pictures to back up he's arguing and has been banned again for the same reason he was first banned

image.jpeg

Pushing his own wheelbarrow 😉
 
tyrantlizardrex
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From a couple of conversations over the last few days, it feels/sounds like these early Speedmasters are going (have already gone?) the same way as early Daytonas.

And thinking outside the watch world... the way of high end classic cars.

Owners/Dealers will try to build the most aesthetically pleasing single watch out of either several watches they have, or stashes of parts acquired over the years - building something out of 100% correct parts, but maybe not 100% original to the watch in question (just like classic cars).

Some will do this to sell (having seen the very high auction prices).

Some will do this to keep (they just want one handsome watch, and will maybe sell lesser watches/spare parts they have).

No one will be able to 100% tell for absolute certain whether these watches are original as the left the factory, or assembled.

The people that buy these watches will be happy with that (if the classic car market is anything to go by), they just want the best example they can find for their money, and they want the watch to be correct, if not factory original.

Others will only want to own low owner, Barn/Sock Drawer/Safe Deposit Box finds that could either be mint, or messy, but are more likely factory original.

Both buying groups will be spending more on these things that most of us mere mortals would ever consider spending on a watch, or in some cases, a house.

TL : DR (again): Only the buyers of these watches can decide whether they're happy with the situation/pricing as it stands. All indications suggest that they are.
 
tyrantlizardrex
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kov kov
1 - Are you omitting David, the Museum Watchmaker, on purpose? I am not referring to the Archives 🤦
2 - Yes, sorry, I don't see. I have a feeling you're stuck on some reference cases and don't want to consider any other possibilities.
3 - If the only thing I can do about it at this stage is to bark about on a public forum, yes. I am not intending to start a crusade against anybody.
4 - Please, I will simply keep quiet and read your posts about injustice from now on.

1 - No, but even he can't confirm wether a watch is original as it left the factory. No one can. So it becomes almost a moot point... they're either composed of correct parts... or not.

2 - I'm saying that anyone involved in the commercial sale of watches has a vested interest. Either in buying stock for themselves at the lowest possibly price. Or in selling their own stock at the highest possible price. Just a fact of life.

3 - We can not buy from the houses that consistently behave in this way (Phillips, Antiquorum). We can ask them the questions that they don't like to answer. We can act (collectively) like shrewd, intelligent buyers stand up for ourselves when we see them doing bad things, and say "hey, guys... come on now". We can do these things politely, directly to the houses in question, or we can do the crazy Orchi Palar thing all over the internet. I personally favour talking to a house... in the last year that's got me a positive result twice, and a negative result (loss of sponsorship) once.

So we (you/I/everyone) could bark on a public forum... or we could go talk to the houses, and when they misbehave, not give them our business.

4 - You don't need to do that. You don't need to do anything. It's just worth considering, that as organised crime pushes the values of certain items in a given market up, the value of other items in the market tend to follow - and that then affects everyone else in the market.

It's part of the reason that London property is insane (Russian and Saudi money parked in derelict properties that trade hands for millions have slowly pushed buyers around, and down, making previously "affordable" areas insane).

It's part of the reason that some watches are now trading hands for ridiculous sums.

Without proper regulation, you make a fair point, there's not much we can do, but it is worth being aware of because it effects all of us.

I'm sorry if this or the previous post came across as an attack @kov - that's not how they were intended. 🤔

Some topics are hard to discuss purely in written text, where nuances and meaning get lost. 🙁
 
kov
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tyrantlizardrex tyrantlizardrex
I'm sorry if this or the previous post came across as an attack @kov - that's not how they were intended. 🤔

Some topics are hard to discuss purely in written text, where nuances and meaning get lost. 🙁

All good, Chris, don’t worry. That’s also my point, I will avoid sensitive topics in the future to avoid misinterpretation 😉 happy weekend !
 
Inox
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tyrantlizardrex tyrantlizardrex
From a couple of conversations over the last few days, it feels/sounds like these early Speedmasters are going (have already gone?) the same way as early Daytonas.

And thinking outside the watch world... the way of high end classic cars.

Owners/Dealers will try to build the most aesthetically pleasing single watch out of either several watches they have, or stashes of parts acquired over the years - building something out of 100% correct parts, but maybe not 100% original to the watch in question (just like classic cars).

Some will do this to sell (having seen the very high auction prices).

Some will do this to keep (they just want one handsome watch, and will maybe sell lesser watches/spare parts they have).

No one will be able to 100% tell for absolute certain whether these watches are original as the left the factory, or assembled.

The people that buy these watches will be happy with that (if the classic car market is anything to go by), they just want the best example they can find for their money, and they want the watch to be correct, if not factory original.

Others will only want to own low owner, Barn/Sock Drawer/Safe Deposit Box finds that could either be mint, or messy, but are more likely factory original.

Both buying groups will be spending more on these things that most of us mere mortals would ever consider spending on a watch, or in some cases, a house.

TL : DR (again): Only the buyers of these watches can decide whether they're happy with the situation/pricing as it stands. All indications suggest that they are.
... and the ones owning these watches might be people that didn’t need the money/ didn’t need to sell when they were 70’ usd, do they need the money more now or will they just hold on to their pieces, perfect or not?
Because they like them. And like or don’t like what has happened.
Altough some possibly will be tempted to sell.
The real, present drawer finds will probably sell if there will be any but probability for that to happen for the autumn isn’t that high I think.
 
rob#1
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tyrantlizardrex tyrantlizardrex
From a couple of conversations over the last few days, it feels/sounds like these early Speedmasters are going (have already gone?) the same way as early Daytonas.

And thinking outside the watch world... the way of high end classic cars.

Owners/Dealers will try to build the most aesthetically pleasing single watch out of either several watches they have, or stashes of parts acquired over the years - building something out of 100% correct parts, but maybe not 100% original to the watch in question (just like classic cars).

Some will do this to sell (having seen the very high auction prices).

Some will do this to keep (they just want one handsome watch, and will maybe sell lesser watches/spare parts they have).

No one will be able to 100% tell for absolute certain whether these watches are original as the left the factory, or assembled.

The people that buy these watches will be happy with that (if the classic car market is anything to go by), they just want the best example they can find for their money, and they want the watch to be correct, if not factory original.

Others will only want to own low owner, Barn/Sock Drawer/Safe Deposit Box finds that could either be mint, or messy, but are more likely factory original.

Both buying groups will be spending more on these things that most of us mere mortals would ever consider spending on a watch, or in some cases, a house.

TL : DR (again): Only the buyers of these watches can decide whether they're happy with the situation/pricing as it stands. All indications suggest that they are.

Good points well made, and the similarities with the classic car market are spot on. When I used to restore classic cars we used whatever parts that would do the job correctly - similar to 321s, the parts were scarce or impossible to find (unless it was a Mercedes, once we ordered a complete original hood structure, fully assembled with frame and lining, from Germany for a car that was over 20 years old!). Many collectors / clients were happy to get a classic car that had been restored as close to original as possible, however we also had cars that were classified as ‘concours’ which were totally original and had to be kept so (similar to the vintage watch market many of these were true barn finds). Honestly, most people couldn’t tell if the parts were original or not, and it didn’t affect the market which, like the watch market, is driven by supply and demand.

Interestingly you can now ensure your classic car stays ‘up to date’ by swapping out the old clunky petrol engine for an electric power unit, without affecting any of the rest of the car. Here is the E-Type Zero http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/jaguar-e-type-zero-review . If only I had a spare 4.2 E-Type hanging around, then I could make sure that a) I wouldn’t need to worry about spare engine parts, b) I would be benefiting the planet, and c) I could be cool. Maybe in time collectors will swap out their 321 movements for solar powered movements so their precious 321 can be kept safely original while they enjoy the visible part of the watch 😵‍💫

Talking of being cool, I note that Jaguar are going the way of Omega with Limited Editions and celebrity connections. Here’s the road-going version of Steve McQueen’s (and my) favourite car, the D Type http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/jaguar-xkss-new. Only 10 made, all sold a long time ago, I’d love to turn up to work in this...
 
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