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10mmauto
·One of mine...
So... any of our members here have an interest in firearms?
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Professor
·Most people think of Winchester when it comes to old west lever actions, usually the 1873 which is legendary, and then the 1876, which was not chambered in 45-70, the most popular large bore cartridge available in the old west (used in the single shot Trapdoor). Due to this, it left the door open for Marlin to create a superior rifle in 45-70 in 1881, the first lever that could handle the power.
While the 1876 toggle link action wasn't as strong as the later actions it was adequate for any reasonable Black Powder pressures, the rifles could be had in .45-75 bottle neck and 50-95 Express.
These cartridges were 1/4" shorter than the .45-70. The 76 action was too short for the .45-70.
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noelekal
··Home For Wayward WatchesI love the clinkity-clack of the '73 Winchester when used in rapid fire and it can be levered fast. From the standpoint of design strength, it does look a little dicey for anything but the low-powered cartridges for which it is chambered. I don't know much about the big Marlin lever-action that introduced the world to lever-action repeaters chambered for the .45-70 service cartridge except that I'd love to own one and shoot it, but its sure hard to beat the Winchester Model 1886. Winchester did a good job when they hooked up with Browning to finally bring their own .45-70-sized lever-action rifle to market.
What I want to know is why did they not continue that theme for the medium-sized lever-action? They brought out the Model 1886 for the big cartridges and then the Model 1892 which is just a cute little Model 1886 in miniature for the short low-powered center fire cartridges that also offered utility in revolvers. But, then in 1894 they adopted a new Browning design for the gun that introduced the .30-30. It's fine, but why not have continued with the 1886 design theme in a medium sized action? It would have been great!
Truth be told, though I have a beloved pre-World War II Winchester Model 94 in .32 Winchester Special, it's my least favorite lever-action design and inferior to the Marlin 36 and 336 .30-30 lever-action rifles. It's action cycle feels comparatively awkward to everything else to me. It operates like Festus walks ... clump-CLUMP ... clump-CLUMP ... clump-CLUMP ...
OOOooo... did I actually admit that in public?!!!
it's amazing how much the Winchester Model 1873 and their larger Model 1876 resemble the Luger upside down. Or, is it the Luger that is upside down?
Sound is a bit annoying if volume is turned up very high.
What I want to know is why did they not continue that theme for the medium-sized lever-action? They brought out the Model 1886 for the big cartridges and then the Model 1892 which is just a cute little Model 1886 in miniature for the short low-powered center fire cartridges that also offered utility in revolvers. But, then in 1894 they adopted a new Browning design for the gun that introduced the .30-30. It's fine, but why not have continued with the 1886 design theme in a medium sized action? It would have been great!
Truth be told, though I have a beloved pre-World War II Winchester Model 94 in .32 Winchester Special, it's my least favorite lever-action design and inferior to the Marlin 36 and 336 .30-30 lever-action rifles. It's action cycle feels comparatively awkward to everything else to me. It operates like Festus walks ... clump-CLUMP ... clump-CLUMP ... clump-CLUMP ...
OOOooo... did I actually admit that in public?!!!
it's amazing how much the Winchester Model 1873 and their larger Model 1876 resemble the Luger upside down. Or, is it the Luger that is upside down?
Sound is a bit annoying if volume is turned up very high.
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Professor
·it's amazing how much the Winchester Model 1873 and their larger Model 1876 resemble the Luger upside down. Or, is it the Luger that is upside down?
The toggle lock actually predates both cartridges and rocket ball. It was used by Italian gunmakers for a very low powered repeating saloon pistol that used a small round ball stuffed in the end of a percussion cap. And before that it was used to load paper cartridges into a breech loading calvary carbine.
Luger lifted the toggle link from the Borchardt auto pistol. Borchardt had worked for Winchester, so the trail is complete.
Maxim also used the Toggle link in his MGs as did Browning, but that's a different story altogether.
I don't think the toggle link itself was ever properly protected by patents, but its applications were.
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ONEWATCH
·I have mixed feelings about guns. I have owned dozens but none in the last 35+ years. They were all hand guns from single shot to Browning Hipower and S&W 59's. My 2 favorites were a S&W model 15 and a 1911 ACP Gold Cup. Both shot very well. My concern about guns lies in 2 areas. Clip capacity and muzzle velocity. I personally feel that a clip capacity of over 9 should be outlawed. Any cartridge with a muzzle velocity over 1500 fps should be very, very strictly regulated. Having said that, some weapons with high capacity clips that are 40 years or older can be qualified as collectables with the proper registration as a collectable. Congress should specify what is and is not legal to own. Then offer a buyback program for those weapons that are no longer legal. Two provisions within the law will make it easily enforceable. First is that these weapons will be declared a terrorist weapon. Second provision of the law should be that if after the end of the buyback program, you are found with a terrorist specific weapon, you go straight to Gitmo.
You can keep your six shot revolver that won the west. You can keep your bolt action hunting rifle, you just can't hoard a thousand rounds of high speed ammo. You can keep your shotgun just not a street sweeper model. Those who are so paranoid that they think the guvment is coming for them probably need to be kept safe in a place like Gitmo.
I apologize to all the gun nuts ahead of time. I know all of you are law abiding citizens. Will you still be if a law like this is passed? Or will you be vacationing in Cuba?
You can keep your six shot revolver that won the west. You can keep your bolt action hunting rifle, you just can't hoard a thousand rounds of high speed ammo. You can keep your shotgun just not a street sweeper model. Those who are so paranoid that they think the guvment is coming for them probably need to be kept safe in a place like Gitmo.
I apologize to all the gun nuts ahead of time. I know all of you are law abiding citizens. Will you still be if a law like this is passed? Or will you be vacationing in Cuba?
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Mtek
·*yawn*
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larryganz
·I have mixed feelings about guns. I have owned dozens but none in the last 35+ years. They were all hand guns from single shot to Browning Hipower and S&W 59's. My 2 favorites were a S&W model 15 and a 1911 ACP Gold Cup. Both shot very well. My concern about guns lies in 2 areas. Clip capacity and muzzle velocity. I personally feel that a clip capacity of over 9 should be outlawed. Any cartridge with a muzzle velocity over 1500 fps should be very, very strictly regulated. Having said that, some weapons with high capacity clips that are 40 years or older can be qualified as collectables with the proper registration as a collectable. Congress should specify what is and is not legal to own. Then offer a buyback program for those weapons that are no longer legal. Two provisions within the law will make it easily enforceable. First is that these weapons will be declared a terrorist weapon. Second provision of the law should be that if after the end of the buyback program, you are found with a terrorist specific weapon, you go straight to Gitmo.
You can keep your six shot revolver that won the west. You can keep your bolt action hunting rifle, you just can't hoard a thousand rounds of high speed ammo. You can keep your shotgun just not a street sweeper model. Those who are so paranoid that they think the guvment is coming for them probably need to be kept safe in a place like Gitmo.
I apologize to all the gun nuts ahead of time. I know all of you are law abiding citizens. Will you still be if a law like this is passed? Or will you be vacationing in Cuba?
Please stop. This is a no politics thread. None of your proposals will reduce crime or deaths. Please stop. Go play in your own safe space instead, and leave us alone. We’ll do the same.
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ONEWATCH
·I already apologized to you and yours. I can't help it if you don't see it coming.
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larryganz
·Ignore the troll, we shall.
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The Father
·“Get off my Lawn”
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ONEWATCH
·Hey, just stating my opinion. If you want to live in your Tremors movie basement compound, that's ok with me. But it is coming. Plus, what if my thoughts are the conservative view?
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Mtek
·Hey fellas, I’m looking at a 1911 in 38 Super. I’ve no experience with this caliber but it gets a lot of good reviews. Why isn’t it more popular? Seems like it’s been around forever, but never taken off like a 9mm.
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The Father
·Don’t know much about the 38 Super, seen a lot of competition guys shoot it. Recoil and flat shooting etc etc
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Mtek
·Don’t know much about the 38 Super, seen a lot of competition guys shoot it. Recoil and flat shooting etc etc
Ya, I’ve seen the same. It’s getting really popular for ccw though, Commander and smaller sizes. Apparently, it’s a good defensive round. Admittedly, I don’t know if this is true though.
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noelekal
··Home For Wayward WatchesWinchester took the toggle link from the Henry rifle which took it from the Volcanic rocket pistol, which in turn took it from the early Jennings rifle.
The toggle lock actually predates both cartridges and rocket ball. It was used by Italian gunmakers for a very low powered repeating saloon pistol that used a small round ball stuffed in the end of a percussion cap. And before that it was used to load paper cartridges into a breech loading cavalry carbine.
Luger lifted the toggle link from the Borchardt auto pistol. Borchardt had worked for Winchester, so the trail is complete.
Maxim also used the Toggle link in his MGs as did Browning, but that's a different story altogether.
I don't think the toggle link itself was ever properly protected by patents, but its applications were.
OK. With the insincere "apologies" behind us we will now return to our regularly scheduled program.
You're right Professor. Good eye for history. It's funny to consider that famous Winchester lever-actions and Smith & Wesson's revolvers shared a common ancestor in the Hunt/Jennings design. Jennings much improved the inadequate and flimsy Hunt design.
More trivia: Walter Hunt also invented the safety pin.
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larryganz
·The problem with 38 super is that it requires a larger grip for a pistol, making it bigger in many cases than those for a 9mm or 40 S&W. It’s used a lot in competition to reach a certain power factor, but a lot of ammo manufacturers don’t make premium self Defence Ammo for the caliber, since it’s less popular.
I’d rather carry 45 ACP or 10mm if I was going have a larger grip size.
I’d rather carry 45 ACP or 10mm if I was going have a larger grip size.
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noelekal
··Home For Wayward WatchesI always wanted a .38 Super to play with but have not availed myself of the opportunity to acquire one yet. I'll get around to it. The .38 Super I'd get would be a full-sized Government Model Colt or similar.
I always wanted one mostly to play with through hand loading experimentation with it. I've always thought .38 Super was everything the 9mm was cracked up to be, yet isn't.
I always wanted one mostly to play with through hand loading experimentation with it. I've always thought .38 Super was everything the 9mm was cracked up to be, yet isn't.
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larryganz
·[Edited my post above because autocorrect changed competition to completion, and changed grip to drip.]
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Wryfox
·I too harbor a Marlin superiority complex, though at times of weakness I always end up with another Winchester, which now outnumber my Marlins even though they are the better gun. Hmmm...
38 super, IMHO, is just about perfect for a 1911. 45 is a touch heavy, 9mm a touch light. 10mm is right out.
So there...double heresy in one post.
Ducking my head now in case lightning strikes...
38 super, IMHO, is just about perfect for a 1911. 45 is a touch heavy, 9mm a touch light. 10mm is right out.
So there...double heresy in one post.
Ducking my head now in case lightning strikes...
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noelekal
··Home For Wayward WatchesOOOooo... I don't know about you Wryfox.
Walther Summerford: Made disparaging remarks about Winchesters and the 10mm.
Walther Summerford: Made disparaging remarks about Winchesters and the 10mm.