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So... any of our members here have an interest in firearms?

  1. larryganz

    larryganz The cable guy Jun 26, 2018

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    Yeah, I have 4 suppressors and 2 short barrel rifles, thanks to those $200 tax stamps from the BATFE. They aren't silencers, but they do reduce the volume to be hearing safe, and from the shooter's end of the gun they sound more like an airgun than a firearm. But if you don't shoot subsonic rounds then there is a loud crack from the bullet breaking the sound barrier.
     
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  2. Wryfox

    Wryfox Jun 26, 2018

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    Yep, biggest misconception about 'silencers' is they are quiet. What they are is quiet-er.

    160db rifle firing, reduced to 130db (rock concert is about 110db, with every 3db increase doubling the sound energy)

    'Silencers' are anything but silent.

    Even the subsonic rounds are noisy...shot a MP5SD one time with subsonic 9mm. Even the sound of the action cycling was loud(ie bolt flying back and forth to feed ammo), very surprisingly so.
     
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  3. Professor

    Professor Jun 26, 2018

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    A single shot .22 using subsonic ammunition or the old style .22 short fitted with a baffled silencer with effective end wipe can silence the sound of the shot to zero DBs.
    I've fired a couple years ago and the only sound was that of the striker impacting the rim of the case.
    I distinguish between suppressors and true silencers, and a true silencer is not very effective when supersonic ammo is used. The end wipe will adversely effect accuracy regardless.
     
  4. Wryfox

    Wryfox Jun 26, 2018

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    Yeah, those are pretty rare I think?..I recall old special forces silencers that used wipes (rubber), but were pretty much single mission use only. The wipes wore out quick, but were quiet, not 0 of course, as even a whisper is 40db, but quiet enough.

    A 22lr is like 140db, and drops to 110 or so with silencer, and due to its short duration just sounds like those toy bang snaps you throw at the ground. But that is with HV ammo and I've never shot subsonic, which would have been cool.:rolleyes:

    The one I shot wouldn't cycle on subsonic as it was full auto, so we didn't bring any, and of course the best combo is full auto with a silencer.:thumbsup:

    Trying to recall what it was..had a huge rotary mag on top...crazy capacity, like 300rds and he had two smaller mags that were 150 I think. Its the only full auto I've ever shot where I stopped shooting before the mag was empty.

    Edit: Found it, its called an American 180. 275 rd drum. Cool video of one. Just as fun as it looks. Now imagine it with a silencer.

     
    Edited Jun 26, 2018
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  5. noelekal

    noelekal Jun 26, 2018

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    Within the past couple of years my brother-in-law has gone from dabbling in suppressors to embracing them whole hog. He's suppressing everything from .22 pistols to a .300 Blackout upper on an AR 15. It's kinda fun to go out and shoot his latest suppressed creations. Standing 20-30 yards away, that .300 Blackout gives the sensation of being quieter than my old Benjamin air rifle. I've not become intrigued enough to jump off into suppressors. If I do ever go in for a suppressed firearm, I'd probably use an old single-shot bolt-action Remington Model 41 in .22 Long Rifle that I have on hand for the basis.

    The .300 Blackout will "suppress" even with supersonic ammunition. Of course the "sonic boom" of the projectile will not be suppressed so comes through. Still, quietening the report is a worthwhile endeavor for a shooter.

    B-I-L and I were at a gunsmith's rural place a few years back and he had a suppressed Ruger 10/22. The only thing one could hear was the cycling of the bolt and it wasn't too loud.

    A lawman bud had a MAC 10 9mm some 20 years ago with a suppressor on it. I think that one used some sort of replaceable wipe kit. We shot it in his back yard right in town with another lawman friend of ours. I remember that there was something substantial there serving as a backstop. The report was negligible however the cycling action gave a distinct popping noise that was raucous during bursts. Then, just before we reentered his back door, he fired off a burst without benefit of the suppressor. Was 10 AM in the morning. I think he was just contrarily trying to "get our goat."
     
    Edited Jun 26, 2018
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  6. larryganz

    larryganz The cable guy Jun 26, 2018

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    I prefer accuracy any day over shooting $50 worth of ammo in under a minute. I came close to buying a full-auto back in 2007, but ammo was way too costly to buy a 30 year old firearm for 5 figures and waste it all - those made after 1986 are only available to manufacturers and law enforcement, so you had to take your chances that the firearm wasn't all fired out and ruined.

    I have an AAC M4-2000 suppressor for my AR-15's and an AAC EVO-9 for my Glocks and Sig. I have a Gemtech Outback II suppressor for my Walther P-22 and Beretta 22 tip up barrel, and an LCW Predator for my Marlin and Ruger 22lr rifles.

    I got the LCW for shooting full auto .22lr when the Akins accelerator bump stock was legal, because it comes apart for cleaning, but then the BATFE decided that using a spring to assist the bump firing was illegal and made everyone turn in their springs. I was able to get my money back from the guy that sold me one, so I didn't get screwed financially.

    But now if Slide-Fire bump stocks get banned the f)*$^# feds better pay up to people if they have to turn in their property - Any bill or regulation requiring those to be handed over needs to include the funds to compensate people for their property, because those don't do anything that you can't do without them if you have a match grade trigger.
     
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  7. Wryfox

    Wryfox Jun 26, 2018

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    About two years ago I tried my friend's bump stock, one of the 1st gen models. I've shot alot of machine guns over the years and this is absolutely the closest thing to a machine gun without being one. It is ridiculously easy to use. Over the last 30yrs I've tried all those silly 'hellfire' and 'tac' triggers, thumbing the beltloop, etc...the tricks to get a few rounds of rapid fire. They were really more novelty than anything. But nothing is like a bump stock. Nothing. It flat out works. I get the concern. After a few mags it really hit me, I turned to my friend and said "they're going to ban these". And so they did here in Florida...anyone with one is an instant criminal come Oct 1st. NRA is suing, though, so we'll see what happens.
     
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  8. larryganz

    larryganz The cable guy Jun 26, 2018

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    Yeah, I see it as an unconstitutional "taking of property", which is more than just real estate - everything we own is property.

    I used to want to run away from Colorado to Florida, but have to rethink that now.
     
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  9. Wryfox

    Wryfox Jun 27, 2018

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    In what crazy world is that a good idea? Florida is filled with retired New York liberals (NY, NJ, CT, MA). Nice enough people and older of course, but they bring their liberal ideals here....not crazy leftist...but what they grew up with...heavy taxes, regulation, fees, govt control. Its what they're comfortable with and the state is well known to be a 'swing' state, ie 50/50 left/right, but is filling up rapidly to the left. Only the natives are conservative. It will be hard to fight the tide. Tons of immigrants/refugees, especially since Hurricane Irma last fall in the Carribean, close to a million I think by now. Its almost a red herring about the border issues in Mexico, more people coming in to Florida recently than anywhere else.

    Everyone thinks it better somewhere else, I guess, but I came from Texas and it was a bit of a shock. This isn't the traditional South.They have an expression here in Florida...you have to go South to go North again. If you want southern values, its LA, MS, AL, GA, SC, TN.

    If I weren't here for my wife's family, I go back to Texas in a heartbeat. No question.
     
    Edited Jun 27, 2018
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  10. Greg5149

    Greg5149 Jun 27, 2018

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    Indeed a fan of different cannon types! I own several .... .45 ACP, .45 GAP, .357, .380, AR 5.57, AK 7.62x39, Catamount AK 12, early 1900's 12 guage....and probably some I have forgotten...
    G
     
  11. noelekal

    noelekal Jun 27, 2018

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    Come on back to Texas Wryfox and we'll play guns!
     
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  12. Wryfox

    Wryfox Jun 27, 2018

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    Sigh, would love to.

    I used to belong to the Central Texas Silueta Association. As a corporate guy running the hampster wheel, going out to this range was like a step into an alternate dimension. Time came to a standstill, the peace of the place was unmatched. Off a county road, down a dirt road past a junkyard then you happen upon one of the finest custom riflesmiths(Howard Dietz) in Texas at the Dietz range(benchrest), which is next to one of the oldest shooting clubs in the country, the New Braunfels Schuetzen Verien(1849). Then you keep going down the road past the hidden police shooting range, then still keep going til you get to a ranch gate. All members had the combo, so just go on and let yourself in, and closing that gate was like closing the gate to the outside world. A nirvana place. It used to be in the middle of nowhere but now its getting surrounded by housing developments so my guess is its days are numbered. So sad but for now it still exists. Shot alot there alone on afternoons I could sneak away from the rat race, and then every month for the various matches held there. One of the best matches was the Blackpowder matches, shooting old falling block/trapdoor rifles with blackpowder cartridges at 400meters(~440 yards). The best of em could hold 1moa or better. 500g at 1000fps would just lob 'em in there and I'd hear the thunk when they hit the silhouette. Afterwards, I'd go collect up the lead bullets. They hit at such a steep angle, and so shallow I could just pick them up of the ground. I've got hundreds of pounds of lead ingots from all those bullets, mine and everyone else's. I re-used them to cast my own. There used to be an exotics ranch next door and sometimes they'd escape and run around the shooting range. Pretty cool to see antelope and such running around, but unfortunately you had to stop and make sure you were clear to shoot. Every once in a while we had to halt a match for cows to mosey on across the 300m line. The cattle ranch on the other side had holes in the fence. All part of the deal there, and a chance to shoot the shit while you wait for the range to clear. As I've heard said there "cows don't move for nuthin"

    When I lived in San Antonio, there were 38 gun ranges in the city and surrounding areas, plus land that some new friends had on the outskirts or up in the hill country. What a way to live, I'll tell you.

    And the gun shows, oh man don't get me started. I'd spend all day talking to the old timers. The stuff you find there, it was like it was out of museums. Elmer Ballance, the founder of Springfield Armory, would set up at one of the smaller shows selling M14 parts. I'd sit with him and he'd tell stories of the good ole days building guns, and fighting the gov't. He's been in Devine, TX since 1971 when he started the company.

    There is a secret firearm museum near downtown that is a real gem. Red McCombs is a big auto dealer there and at his corporate headquarters there is a firearms collection that runs from the lobby down the side halls. Absolutely amazing old west history. Not official nor advertised, its literally just a business lobby with tons of guns in glass cases. Never would have known it except a friend of Red's told me to go there and just say to reception that Red told me to come see the guns. He was right, they left me alone as I wandered around.

    There was nothing that wasn't great about living there.....except maybe the heat...more specifically the dry heat. Everyone thinks dry heat is good, and it is, to a point. Single digit humidity sucks. Your nose dries out, fingers crack, eyes water. Lots and lots of dust on dry days. But generally it was just beautiful there the whole year.
     
    Edited Jun 27, 2018
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  13. noelekal

    noelekal Jun 27, 2018

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    Sounds like you enjoyed Texas. I can't say I enjoy it this time of year. Maybe I'm getting too old to want to "fade the heat."

    "And the gun shows, oh man don't get me started. I'd spend all day talking to the old timers. The stuff you find there, it was like it was out of museums. Elmer Ballance, the founder of Springfield Armory, would set up at one of the smaller shows selling M14 parts. I'd sit with him and he'd tell stories of the good ole days building guns, and fighting the gov't. He's been in Devine, TX since 1971 when he started the company.

    "A server error occurred. Please try again later."

    Was going to show you a late Devine, Texas M1A with a receiver in the 004200 range, but server's down. We'll try to "wire around" that and post a photo. Anyway, it's the M1A that lives here. Nothing special. Just a compilation of military M14 parts hanging onto the commercially produced receiver. Not been "tricked" up but only shot and shot. Shoots like a "house afire" off the bench rest. Could use a good trigger job, something I've been intending to "get around to" since the early 1990s when I picked it up used at the Dallas Market Hall gun show. Back when I got it I didn't know the serial number was significant.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Waltesefalcon

    Waltesefalcon Jun 27, 2018

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    The heats not bad North of the Red River it's only 102 today so I'm visiting with my mom on the back porch. Places in which people are allowed to live the way they want without a huge amount of government interference are a blessing in today's world.
     
    Edited Jun 27, 2018
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  15. noelekal

    noelekal Jun 27, 2018

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    We need to be thankful for such blessings down here and be always vigilant in protecting them.

    Hah! It's 102F here too.
     
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  16. Wryfox

    Wryfox Jun 28, 2018

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    Its 102% humidity here in Florida ;)
     
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  17. noelekal

    noelekal Jun 28, 2018

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    Been there (to Florida). Done that.

    Just can't do humidity.

    Don't see why its the retirement destination with that miserable humidity.

    Are there really any special considerations that one must make in order to carry side arms? Would a fellow like me with his blued Smith & Wessons and Colts, kept wiped with RIG, still come to grief?
     
  18. Waltesefalcon

    Waltesefalcon Jun 28, 2018

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    Noelekal, I think stainless is the way to go if you are going to be someplace like Florida.
     
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  19. Wryfox

    Wryfox Jun 28, 2018

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    Air Conditioning is your life here. Growth in Florida didn't occur until AC became more affordable and widespread in the 1950s, and of course reliable cars. Before that it was rich northerners who only came in the winter by train.

    In the summer you jump from house to car and back again. You sweat just standing outdoors, so if you're in business attire or just nice clothes, you move pretty quick.

    The joke here is that Florida summer is called the 90/90s. 90deg and 90% humidity. It doesn't quite get that bad, as rain clouds form before that....its more a statement on how it feels. Sometimes you wake up in the morning and the windows are wet but it didn't rain. Its condensation on the windows overnight. BTW, tree frogs like wet windows, and many mornings you see frogs all over and their crawl tracks stay after the window dries. How cute!

    Air Conditioning's primary purpose is removing moisture. Dry 80 feels better than a wet 70. I was listening to a home show on the radio last week and the so called expert said that AC is spec'd in a Florida home to achieve a 50% 78deg environment in summer. I would have though much less but it takes alot of energy to remove moisture and a higher capacity can make your home uncomfortably dry when its not humid, so its a balance they say, between energy use, comfort, and longevity.

    One thing I learned is you cannot turn your AC off in Florida summer. We went to Hawaii years ago and my in-laws came to house-sit the dogs for two weeks. Unfortunately, they like it warm and humid, so they turned off the AC the whole time. We came back and wondered what the hell happened, the door frames and other trim were cracked and gapped due to the the moisture absorption, and our AC system molded up due to the wet drain tray having no air flow...coil and interior housing had to be replaced to the tune of $1000.

    In San Antonio it was the opposite, we had a humidifier as part of the Honeywell Clean Comfort system. You could set humidity as well as temperature and there were misters in the system to add moisture during the summer. And to keep dust down, it had multiple large 4" filters(at $50 a pop). Dust is a big deal there due to dryness. Gets into everything. We had dogs then...it was a true battle to keep floors clean.

    So if you've tolerated my little dissertation on Florida climate, the fact is if you keep your home AC going, your firearms will be fine. We use DampRid containers in the safes as a belt and suspenders approach, but if the AC is doing its job, I only have to check the DampRids every 6 months or so. Its a good gauge of whats going on in the house. As a general rule, I do not treat my firearms externally, I keep them dry and only lube internals. The reason why is most lubricants and some treatments (not RIG which I think is the best, but only for long term storage) have lighter elements that evaporate over time. If you keep firearms in a closed environment like a safe or display case, the evaporated components coat other stuff, and can make a mess. Its like a new car where the interior plastic 'vinyl vapor' coats the windows for several months after. I used to be religious about lubrication/treatment and have now learned that minimal to none is best. The absolute best metal treatment I've found is "Break Free CO Collector". I also collect antique Japanese swords, which are bare carbon steel, and this is by far the best treatment for keeping swords. It's used by museums as well. If it can keep bare metal rust free, its good for anything. BUT, it is only a surface treatment, not a lubricant.

    As far as carry, I use small guns (380) with a slip holster, and put them in my pocket. IWB carry is asking for trouble as sweat, an almost perfect corrosion agent, will get it wet and nasty. You wouldn't believe how many carry pistols I see at gun shows corroded on one side only. Saw a Sig 220 yesterday, same problem and it was stainless. Sweat is nasty stuff. Salty, acidic and wet.

    In Texas, I found if there was surface corrosion on the outside, the inside was usually fine. Opposite here. If it looks bad on the outside, its even worse inside.
     
    Edited Jun 28, 2018
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  20. Waltesefalcon

    Waltesefalcon Jun 28, 2018

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    Wry, you shouldn't go to work for the Florida tourism department.
     
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