So... any of our members here have an interest in firearms?

Omegafanman · Jul 22, 2022

Waltesefalcon
You're welcome. In time those vibrant colors will slowly fade until they look more like your hammer and loading lever. Here are my two revolvers with color case hardening, in both examples you can see that they have faded to a mottled gray patina. This first is an Armi San Marcos copy of a Colt Walker, the second is an Uberti copy of a Colt Single Action Army.

Thanks again. Nice pictures and interesting to see how they age so well. Here is mine in all its glory. It was an antiques shop/impulse buy. There were a few other single actions (usual .45 suspects ) but ironically the 1860 was seen as the runt of the litter. I was drawn to the aesthetic and history. I have since found an old Tam holster for it (good brand?) which arrived this week and and looks good match. One last question. It has been fired in the past I think with limited maintenance (it had dead cartridges in it) and being a blank firer has a lot of powder residue (and again limited breakdown options due the the UK regulations). Any cleaning materials/oils recommended to reduce the long term corrosion potential? It had no manual or papers.

Waltesefalcon · Jul 22, 2022

Omegafanman
Thanks again. Nice pictures and interesting to see how they age so well. Here is mine in all its glory. It was an antiques shop/impulse buy. There were a few other single actions (usual .45 suspects ) but ironically the 1860 was seen as the runt of the litter. I was drawn to the aesthetic and history. I have since found an old Tam holster for it (good brand?) which arrived this week and and looks good match. One last question. It has been fired in the past I think with limited maintenance (it had dead cartridges in it) and being a blank firer has a lot of powder residue (and again limited breakdown options due the the UK regulations). Any cleaning materials/oils recommended to reduce the long term corrosion potential? It had no manual or papers.

Can you get your hands on Ballistol, or Hoppes? Both are good oils, a lot of people nowadays prefer Ballistol for black powder stuff, and it is good quality oil.

To remove the barrel and cylinder for cleaning all you have to do is remove the barrel wedge from the arbor. If it is tight a light tap with a wooden or rubber mallet will free it up. Then the barrel just slides off the arbor as will the cylinder.

I clean my black powder guns with hot soapy water in the sink. Once I have all the powder residue off I'll put it in the oven at around 200° to quickly dry off the steel so it doesn't rust. Then just run an oily patch down the bore and through the chambers in the cylinder. Wipe down all the surfaces with a slightly oily rag and reassemble.

Omegafanman · Jul 22, 2022

Waltesefalcon
Can you get your hands on Ballistol, or Hoppes? Both are good oils, a lot of people nowadays prefer Ballistol for black powder stuff, and it is good quality oil.

To remove the barrel and cylinder for cleaning all you have to do is remove the barrel wedge from the arbor. If it is tight a light tap with a wooden or rubber mallet will free it up. Then the barrel just slides off the arbor as will the cylinder.

I clean my black powder guns with hot soapy water in the sink. Once I have all the powder residue off I'll put it in the oven at around 200° to quickly dry off the steel so it doesn't rust. Then just run an oily patch down the bore and through the chambers in the cylinder. Wipe down all the surfaces with a slightly oily rag and reassemble.

Thanks again. Both oils look possible. I will take the grips off and try a deep clean as suggested above. I think barrel removal might be a bigger issue in the UK (to prevent conversion) but I will have a look.
Many thanks again for the help everyone who replied.

Waltesefalcon · Jul 22, 2022

You're more than welcome.

So, even to clean your revolver it is illegal to disassemble it? Does this law also apply to rifles and shotguns? I'm just wondering how you are supposed to do proper maintence if you aren't allowed to strip a gun.

lindo · Jul 22, 2022

Waltesefalcon
You're welcome. In time those vibrant colors will slowly fade until they look more like your hammer and loading lever. Here are my two revolvers with color case hardening, in both examples you can see that they have faded to a mottled gray patina. This first is an Armi San Marcos copy of a Colt Walker, the second is an Uberti copy of a Colt Single Action Army.

Another example of a faded colour hardened patina, on a Hartford manufactured Colt made for export to the English market after the London factory closed down in 1857. I prefer the faded finish, especially on guns that have obviously been used but also well maintained. This particular Colt came to Australia in the 1860s, and shows holster wear on the butt, cylinder and the barrel. I bought it from the original owner's family, but they could not tell me much about its history.

Omegafanman · Jul 23, 2022

Waltesefalcon
You're more than welcome.

So, even to clean your revolver it is illegal to disassemble it? Does this law also apply to rifles and shotguns? I'm just wondering how you are supposed to do proper maintence if you aren't allowed to strip a gun.

I had a licence many years back. Anything legal which shoots a projectile is normal factory finish/ you can fully field strip. There can be mods to reduce the number of rounds held /prevent automatic fire etc depending on the regulations. Blank guns are heavily modified to prevent components being replaced or modified to allow live firing - even to the detriment of maintenance as I understand it. The rules keep increasing/they are looking to licence airguns as well (which are already low power and age limited in the UK)

johnireland · Jul 23, 2022

Not sure if, in today's climate, we should even discuss this. One day the gun regulators will be begging the people who own guns to come out of hiding and to protect them from crime (both institutional and from individual crooks). But as they drown in the primordial soup of modern woke societies, those they used to attack will feel no compulsion to come to their aid. Best for those who appreciate firearms to become invisible and silent and disappear into the gray shadows. Watches don't need politics polluting their discussions. IMO.

Omegafanman · Jul 24, 2022

johnireland
Not sure if, in today's climate, we should even discuss this. One day the gun regulators will be begging the people who own guns to come out of hiding and to protect them from crime (both institutional and from individual crooks). But as they drown in the primordial soup of modern woke societies, those they used to attack will feel no compulsion to come to their aid. Best for those who appreciate firearms to become invisible and silent and disappear into the gray shadows. Watches don't need politics polluting their discussions. IMO.

You are the one talking politics and using generic labels and pejorative terms. These are complex issues with require nuanced debate and a willingness to understand and unify different points of view. It is not a topic for the forum and as the media and powers that be thrive on controversy and polarising sound bites these days, it is unlikely to be solved anywhere else sadly. I was seeking technical help and on the back of that was just clarifying why in the UK some items only have limited access for maintenance, which is a bit counterintuitive if you don’t know the rules.

efauser · Jul 24, 2022

johnireland
Not sure if, in today's climate, we should even discuss this. One day the gun regulators will be begging the people who own guns to come out of hiding and to protect them from crime (both institutional and from individual crooks). But as they drown in the primordial soup of modern woke societies, those they used to attack will feel no compulsion to come to their aid. Best for those who appreciate firearms to become invisible and silent and disappear into the gray shadows. Watches don't need politics polluting their discussions. IMO.

This thread is for people who collect and appreciate firearms, not political statements.

Pascal S · Jul 25, 2022

I live in a country where owning a firearm is heavily regulated, so I will probably never get to own anything, and I'm not complaining about that. On the other hand, one might be on a diet and still be allowed to read the menu, so I enjoy firearms from afar as fine examples of precision engineering.

Apart from fair air rifles, I've only used a real gun once, during a trip to the US. A friend and I went to a private range and each rented a handgun. My pal originally wanted to try a .44 Magnum but ultimately got deterred by the price of the ammo. He then went completely the other way and rented a .22. As for me, I had set my sights on a Beretta 92, which was a bit of a challenge at first for a complete newcomer. We had a great time.

If I was to find myself in a position to buy a handgun today, there are two models that strike my fancy:
- Manurhin MR73 Gendarmerie, which is possibly one of the finest revolvers (lots of) money can buy these days
- Steyr M9-A2 MF, because I'd want something else than a Glock and just as modern in its conception.

Omegafanman · Jul 28, 2022

Waltesefalcon
Can you get your hands on Ballistol, or Hoppes? Both are good oils, a lot of people nowadays prefer Ballistol for black powder stuff, and it is good quality oil.

To remove the barrel and cylinder for cleaning all you have to do is remove the barrel wedge from the arbor. If it is tight a light tap with a wooden or rubber mallet will free it up. Then the barrel just slides off the arbor as will the cylinder.

I clean my black powder guns with hot soapy water in the sink. Once I have all the powder residue off I'll put it in the oven at around 200° to quickly dry off the steel so it doesn't rust. Then just run an oily patch down the bore and through the chambers in the cylinder. Wipe down all the surfaces with a slightly oily rag and reassemble.

Ballistol was a good suggestion. The service from Ballistol UK has been great... even sent some extras so a big 👍
.

Waltesefalcon · Aug 31, 2022

I just picked up this little Colt Pocket Positive to add to the collection. It's from 1910 and in .32 Police Cartridge (.32 S&W). When I got it yesterday it was a pretty filthy gun with decades of dried up oil that had turned to shellac. After a couple of hours with a copper brush, tooth picks, and q-tips, it finally is looking pretty good and is in a very good functional state; the trigger is crisp, lock-up tight, and timing is spot on. Here it is before, during, and finally after clean up.

Omegafanman · Sep 1, 2022

This thread has inspired me to take up the sport again. I am talking to a local club. Pistol round in a rifle or black powder pistol look the likely options (UK based) I think the black powder might be the route. Due to visit them in a few weeks.

Kwijibo · Sep 1, 2022

Waltesefalcon
I just picked up this little Colt Pocket Positive to add to the collection. It's from 1910 and in .32 Police Cartridge (.32 S&W). When I got it yesterday it was a pretty filthy gun with decades of dried up oil that had turned to shellac. After a couple of hours with a copper brush, tooth picks, and q-tips, it finally is looking pretty good and is in a very good functional state; the trigger is crisp, lock-up tight, and timing is spot on. Here it is before, during, and finally after clean up.

Congrats, you did a great cleaning work.
I have one of these little colt pocket but the previous version without positive lock and a thinner frame. . it's a very handy little gun. what stikes me most is the quality of machining for a 100 years old gun. mine is chambered in 32 short colt, so is mostly a wall hanger.
As for colt, I recently got this civil army/navy that is in a very fine condition. Apparently a British lend lease.

noelekal · Sep 1, 2022

You go Waltesefalcon!

Good job on that cute little Colt! Detail stripping Colts of that action design is a bit like divining the future by reading the tea leaves or looking at chicken entrails, at least it is for me. I can do it, but don't profess to like to. Live vintage Colt revolvers though.

Waltesefalcon · Sep 1, 2022

That's a lovely looking Army/Navy @Kwijibo . Colt's machining from the late 1800s and early 1900s is superb, and I'd even go so far as to say they were likely producing the finest handguns in the world at the time. Very few companies around the world could produce a gun that could compete with Colt.

@noelekal Thank you. I also service these old Colts. I know a lot of people shy way from them for one reason or another but they are strong guns and aren't all that hard to work on. Their design makes sense to me and is in many ways more elegant than other revolver designs.

Kwijibo · Sep 1, 2022

Hello Walt

I agree, I wonder how they could produce such precise parts at the time. The polishing is also stunning. I think the only ones that can compete concerning machining are Korth and Manurhin. I will have a MR73 someday... Even in France where it's produced it cost 2500 euros.
I've heard that Manurhin was purchased by Beretta. That's some good news for you, US friends, I think the Manurhin revolvers will be easier to find in the US.
I've been looking for some old colt's factory archive but didn't find much stuff. If anyone has that I would be interested.
As for my new navy/army, I begun to reload some 357 bullets before realizing that the bore was more a 375...
This very gun is funny because even if it's stamped 38 special, it seems not to have been modified for the bore or the chambers. So I need a recessed bullet to fit both the bore/chambers and the case.

noelekal · Sep 1, 2022

Your fine condition Colt New Army is actually in .38 Long Colt rather than .38 Special. Cartridge case dimensions between the two cartridges are very similar, the .38 Long Colt being the shorter of the two. Bore diameter of the .38 Long Colt is .362-.363 while bore diameter of the .38 Special is .357-.358. The .38 Long Colt effectively uses the larger diameter projectile because its bullets were provided in either a heel bullet design of bore diameter or else were of a hollow base design, the hollow bullet base expanding upon firing to fit the bore's diameter.

The Colt cylinder features bored through chambers rather than having defined chambers of specified cartridge dimensions with defined shoulders cut into each chamber. This means the Colt chamber will accept any cartridge case of similar dimensions ans having a case length that will fit in the chamber.

The Colt chamber will readily accept most standard .38 Special ammunition. Use of same though will be hard on the revolver, stressing it and introducing premature wear and loosening at best or outright damaging it at worst. Some powerful versions of .38 Special could cause the revolver to "grenade," that is sustain a catastrophic failure.

Colt guns were said the be of the very best steels available in their day, heat treated to the very best standards technology of the day could provide. Despite these features, these early Colts aren't as strong as later revolvers from the era when the .38 Special held sway. The .38 Special cartridge is loaded to higher operating pressures than the .38 Long Colt was designed for, sometimes significantly higher pressures.

I have both .38 Long Colt and .38 Special revolvers on hand and have gleaned experience using the two cartridges and handloading shooting quantities of ammunition for each cartridge.

Kwijibo · Sep 1, 2022

Hello noelekal,
I forgot to mention that I made black powder cartridges. If ever I reload with some smokeless powder I will be very careful. This one is stamped nitroproof (9 tons) so it will potentially accept modern powder with a reasonable load.
My barrel shows definitly no recess. The 38 SP case fits perfectly. I don't have any 38 colt around so I can't compare.

noelekal · Sep 1, 2022

All that blurb I just wrote above was for "official" safety purposes you understand. You being a handloader will understand. Your loading description is very wise

In the "do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do" department, while I do load up proper .38 Long Colt cartridges on occasion,, but confess to just using my very mild .38 Special handload made especially for target use in the various .38 Special revolvers on hand here. It's a low pressure load using light charges of powder and a hollow based 148 grain wadcutter of .358 diameter and put up in a .38 Special case. The combination fits the Colt chambers and gives perfect satisfaction out of my 1901 vintage Colt chambered for .38 Long Colt. The .358 diameter wadcutter's bullet base expands adequately to provide good accuracy from the Colt revolver's larger .362 diameter bore.