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Significance of the Dial

P
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tried to see if there was a topic on this to no avail.

ive been mulling this for some time now.

I understand value differences because of the case material (SS v PM) and because of the movement (321 v 861 v 1861 v 3861).

but on some models like the tintin, japan racing, snoopy, albino, mitsukoshi, etc., the value is due to differences in the dial. two watches may have the same material and movement (and even manufactured and sold in same period) but due to a different originally intended and attached dial, they are priced differently.

because if it’s all about the looks, a modification by changing the dial (still using original omega parts) should achieve the same valuation, more or less.

have not been able to fully fathom this matter. or maybe am just ignorant on why these models are sought after.
 
DLT222
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I think its largely down to desirability and how many were made as opposed to the dial. Having a dial conversion say of a Mitsukoshi is cool, but when you have one of the original 300 pieces its way more cooler, price also plays a factor.

Thats just me.
 
janice&fred
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P pongster
a modification by changing the dial (still using original omega parts) should achieve the same valuation, more or less.

i'm not so sure. I think an extract would prove one to be factory issue and limited production thus more sought after.
 
STANDY
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Basically If the pool of a certain LE supply dries up this pushes the price up. Which pushes conversions to look like the LE if dials are available.

A original sought after LE will always be valued and traded higher than a modified watch made to look like a original LE
 
P
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Thank you gents.

Basically your comments support my thesis.

So the value is driven by:

1 the aesthetics of the perceptible dial and

2. the intangible knowledge (as proven by a tangible extract or even the original purchase documents/warranty cards) that the watch was “born” exactly that way.

Which still makes it hard for me to fathom as essentially they are the same watches inside and out save for the dial and the provenance. Same quality. Same timekeeping ability.

Oh well. That’s what’s beautiful about this hobby i guess.
 
Gav1967
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P pongster
tried to see if there was a topic on this to no avail.

ive been mulling this for some time now.

I understand value differences because of the case material (SS v PM) and because of the movement (321 v 861 v 1861 v 3861).

but on some models like the tintin, japan racing, snoopy, albino, mitsukoshi, etc., the value is due to differences in the dial. two watches may have the same material and movement (and even manufactured and sold in same period) but due to a different originally intended and attached dial, they are priced differently.

because if it’s all about the looks, a modification by changing the dial (still using original omega parts) should achieve the same valuation, more or less.

have not been able to fully fathom this matter. or maybe am just ignorant on why these models are sought after.
What about when the only difference is an orange hand????
 
STANDY
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Gav1967 Gav1967
What about when the only difference is an orange hand????

Or if a dot on a bezel is 1mm higher or lower. 😗
 
Gav1967
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P pongster
Thank you gents.

Basically your comments support my thesis.

So the value is driven by:

1 the aesthetics of the perceptible dial and

2. the intangible knowledge (as proven by a tangible extract or even the original purchase documents/warranty cards) that the watch was “born” exactly that way.

Which still makes it hard for me to fathom as essentially they are the same watches inside and out save for the dial and the provenance. Same quality. Same timekeeping ability.

Oh well. That’s what’s beautiful about this hobby i guess.

I think you are trying to objectify something that is largely subjective and intangible driven by some sort of desire whether this is logical or not. Value has often got more to do with other things than just performance or quality

2 identical watches would no doubt have wildly different values if you could demonstrate one was owned and worn by a famous personality

An inferior watch would be worth much more than a perfect one if it was the actual watch that went into space for instance

A rolex "double 9" watch has an inflated price because of a fault with QC

there are many other examples.
 
P
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Exactly sir. Am trying to understand what drives this subjective valuation.

I understand the personal sentimentality. That is certainly unique and must be evaluated on a case to case basis.

But for some reason, there appears to be some commonality in the subjective appreciation of the speedmaster dials (and let’s include the DON bezel and ultraman second hand).
 
Wryfox
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Curb appeal isn't called curb appeal for nothing.

I don't care how rare a watch is, if its not attractive, I don't want it.
 
B
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If you think this is bad, go look at Rolex where a different colored bezel can double the value of the watch (i.e. Pepsi vs, Black). The answer is that there is no objective reason for the watches to command a different values based on color changes to dials/trim alone (all else equal). This is purely marketing and hype.

For the older pieces that languish on dealer shelves, stories are created to create demand and perceived value, so things like the "Tin-Tin" are born.

Unpopular models were unpopular for a reason, it's the stories we tell ourselves about them years later that create value where none existed, see Paul Newman Daytonas for reference.

Sellers are always trying to "Trump up" their product. The more qualifiers someone uses to justify the rarity/uniqueness and therefore increased price vs. other like products, the more bullshit the justification. IMO, colors do not differentiate enough to command significant premiums. Materials, finishes, and movements, do.
 
Dan S
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Why is it hard to understand the increased value of limited editions. It's Collectibles 101 ... they are "limited", therefore demonstrably rare, which is half of the equation.

Rarity + Appeal = Value
 
VetPsychWars
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Dan S Dan S
Rarity + Appeal = Value

So true and people selling things frequently think Rarity + No Appeal = Value as well, which is not true at all.

Tom
 
B
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I think this issue is that in many people's minds the rarity is the appeal, hence all of the LEs, and catologing the minutia of differences to create implied value.
 
Bp1000
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Simply rarity

You don’t even need appeal. What were the most unpopular watches in the 60s 70s and even 80s are now the most valuable

6239-6269 Daytona’s
Gold Daytona’s
Pulsation dial Daytona’s
Oyster cosmogtaph Daytona’s
Root beer GMT’s
Tv Pateks

All of these never sold well at all. Not compared to dress watches and datejusts.

I don’t think today’s watches are any different.
I think the limited edition ones are valuable immediately and will always be.

But the models nobody buys are where the future
values are.
 
B
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Values are also driven by social media hype & international auction houses.
 
timecube
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Bp1000 Bp1000
Simply rarity
My Invicta is a unique and beautiful snowflake.
No other watch on Earth is exactly the same as it is.
Therefore: it is of incomparable value
 
machamp6650
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P pongster
I understand value differences because of the case material (SS v PM) and because of the movement (321 v 861 v 1861 v 3861).

but on some models like the tintin, japan racing, snoopy, albino, mitsukoshi, etc., the value is due to differences in the dial. two watches may have the same material and movement (and even manufactured and sold in same period) but due to a different originally intended and attached dial, they are priced differently.

because if it’s all about the looks, a modification by changing the dial (still using original omega parts) should achieve the same valuation, more or less.

have not been able to fully fathom this matter. or maybe am just ignorant on why these models are sought after.

Thanks for bringing this up OP, this is something I've also struggled to get my head around in the past.

One reason I got into speedies to begin was that I saw all these great variations (esp japan racing and mitsukoshi) and realised a lot of them were mods. So you could get an incredible looking and unusual speedy for the base price + a couple hundred for original service parts.

I'm still a fan of mods, but am increasingly appreciating why they aren't valued the same or sought after in the same way as the originals. It's been great to see the amount of passion driven by the smallest details or background of a watch, whether because of rarity value, the story behind the provenance, the aims for a complete collection, the historical interest and desire to maintain vintage watches as they were back in the day, all mixed in with some impressive OCD and investor instincts... many of these are subjective factors but add so much value to so many people.
 
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