Should I trade my Speedy for a SM300?

[bigtriangle68]

Revo

Hi All

One for the naysayers and enablers alike: I've got a Speedmaster 145.022-78 (movement s/n 44820xxx)

Good condition, unpolished case but clearly worn and well-loved (dings and scuffs and so on). An honest example.

But I have a hankering for a SM300 (166.024 / 165.024).

Random and somewhat gratuitous picture for those who don't know what a vintage SM300 looks like -- and for the rest you who do and just want some eye-candy:



I know these are a real minefield: plenty of frankens, re-dials and otherwise wrong ones out there, not to mention the outright fakes. (Heck you can even buy a case / dial / handset kit on etsy -- presumably Chinese -- and drop in your own cal. 552. I wish I'd bought a watchco job back when they were reasonably priced!)

Anyway: pros and cons? Prices? (I'm assuming I'd be trading up and adding cash to whatever the Speedy is worth.) Would you?

Thanks

Another option is to get a Watcho Seamaster 300. You get a vintage 552 movement with recent manufacture (circa 2000 - 2010) Omega OEM factory replacement parts. You will have a fully functioning luminova dial, handset and bezel that glows like a blowtorch.

Trying to buy a vintage 300 can be a landmine. Yeah, the brown patination from tritium rot can look cool, but there can also be headaches with a vintage 300.

 

[Syrte]

Revo

Hi All

One for the naysayers and enablers alike: I've got a Speedmaster 145.022-78 (movement s/n 44820xxx)

Good condition, unpolished case but clearly worn and well-loved (dings and scuffs and so on). An honest example.

But I have a hankering for a SM300 (166.024 / 165.024).

Random and somewhat gratuitous picture for those who don't know what a vintage SM300 looks like -- and for the rest you who do and just want some eye-candy:



I know these are a real minefield: plenty of frankens, re-dials and otherwise wrong ones out there, not to mention the outright fakes. (Heck you can even buy a case / dial / handset kit on etsy -- presumably Chinese -- and drop in your own cal. 552. I wish I'd bought a watchco job back when they were reasonably priced!)

Anyway: pros and cons? Prices? (I'm assuming I'd be trading up and adding cash to whatever the Speedy is worth.) Would you?

Thanks

Are you sure you’ll be happy with a WatchCo over time if this is what comes to mind when you think of an SM300?

 

[bigtriangle68]

Revo

Thanks all. I think the 1171 / 633 from the Speedy will fit the SM300, too? (The Speedy is on a vintage flat link, which looks great.)

I experimented with 1171, flat link and 1450. While the 1171 is a popular choice, I didn't like the hollow end links and sheet metal clasp. The flat link polished links didn't gel well with the aggressive 300 bezel. It looked odd and blingy.

I liked the all-brushed Forstner 1450 the best with Forstner pushbutton milled clasp. The Forstner Speedmaster 2021 solid end links fit the 300 better than other Forstner end links.

Edited: Oct 12, 2022

 

[SBund]

bigtriangle68

Another option is to get a Watcho Seamaster 300. You get a vintage 552 movement with recent manufacture (circa 2000 - 2010) Omega OEM factory replacement parts. You will have a fully functioning luminova dial, handset and bezel that glows like a blowtorch.

Trying to buy a vintage 300 can be a landmine. Yeah, the brown patination from tritium rot can look cool, but there can also be headaches with a vintage 300.

Somehow I am fairly certain that you did not take your time to read through the relatively short thread. No bueno 👎

 

[Revo]

Syrte

Are you sure you’ll be happy with a WatchCo over time if this is what comes to mind when you think of an SM300?

Yes, a watchco or equivalent (i.e. made up of genuine Omega parts) is what I have in mind, mostly due to my my budget but also on durability, worry-free wear etc.

 

[Revo]

bigtriangle68

I experimented with 1171, flat link and 1450. While the 1171 is a popular choice, I didn't like the hollow end links and sheet metal clasp. The flat link polished links didn't gel well with the aggressive 300 bezel. It looked odd and blingy.

I liked the all-brushed Forstner 1450 the best with Forstner pushbutton milled clasp. The Forstner Speedmaster 2021 solid end links fit the 300 better than other Forstner end links.

Thanks. I have a ton of 20mm straps and bracelets to play with first! Will bear in mind the 1171 vs bezel conflict though!

 

[river rat]

I got both the way to go. Best of both worlds.


But got them in the days they were cheaper and easier to get. Got the Omega 300 years ago on the MWR PX when Jack at IWW sold off a bunch of them. Got the Speedmaster at a NAWCC reginal in Pasadena think for 1400 the 300 for a little over 2000. If you go for a date one the date window on the watchco ones don't have rounded corners. Link below on Omega 300 will help to prevent getting a fake. It also has the prices they should go for.

Omega Seamaster 300 Collectors Guide | Omega Passion

 

[Revo]

river rat

I got both the way to go. Best of both worlds.

But got them in the days they were cheaper and easier to get. Got the Omega 300 years ago on the MWR PX when Jack at IWW sold off a bunch of them. Got the Speedmaster at a NAWCC reginal in Pasadena think for 1400 the 300 for a little over 2000. If you go for a date one the date window on the watchco ones don't have rounded corners. Link below on Omega 300 will help to prevent getting a fake. It also has the prices they should go for.

Omega Seamaster 300 Collectors Guide | Omega Passion

Thanks RR, I'm working out a plan that would allow me have both as the Speedy does get a lot of wrist time. So something else will have to go to fund the SM300.

 

[bigtriangle68]

SBund

Somehow I am fairly certain that you did not take your time to read through the relatively short thread. No bueno 👎

 

[Revo]

Any idea what I should be paying for a watchco (or equivalent ie 100% genuine Omega) SM300?

Non-date version, head only (I have more bracelets than gypsy fortune teller) and standard non-BT dial?

I’m in the UK so I wondered if £3 - £3.5k is in the right ballpark

Thanks

 

[SBund]

Revo

Any idea what I should be paying for a watchco (or equivalent ie 100% genuine Omega) SM300?

Non-date version, head only (I have more bracelets than gypsy fortune teller) and standard non-BT dial?

I’m in the UK so I wondered if £3 - £3.5k is in the right ballpark

Thanks

You’re in the right ballpark for a WatchCo, however they can be difficult to come by at those prices is my experience. A NOS WatchCo should in my opinion never cost more than £3.500, yet they often do. That price is just too damn close to a real vintage 165.024, so I ended up putting up the extra money for the ‘real deal’.

 

[Revo]

SBund

You’re in the right ballpark for a WatchCo, however they can be difficult to come by at those prices is my experience. A NOS WatchCo should in my opinion never cost more than £3.500, yet they often do. That price is just too damn close to a real vintage 165.024, so I ended up putting up the extra money for the ‘real deal’.

With respect a real SM300 is a lot more.

Here's one that just sold for £6,300 (£4.5k hammer + 40% (20% fees and 20% VAT) = £6,300.)

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/...dad74b-3cd0-4ca8-92b1-af2701150fa8#lotDetails

 

[SBund]

Revo

With respect a real SM300 is a lot more.

Here's one that just sold for £6,300 (£4.5k hammer + 40% (20% fees and 20% VAT) = £6,300.)

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/...dad74b-3cd0-4ca8-92b1-af2701150fa8#lotDetails

An original SM300 is of course a lot more if you only look at examples in the pictured condition - it even comes with the original 1039/516 bracelet, which is worth quite a bit.

I bought my first 165.024 for £4.050 maybe 6 months ago. Definitely not collector condition, but fair condition. Still, in my opinion, that 165.024 was a far better deal than the current WatchCo market price.

 

[river rat]

You might go for date model there a little cheaper. Really don’t know why they both have the cool factor. The date change on these are different you pull the crown up and down for it.

 

[JwRosenthal]

Since the announcement from Omega last year that they would no longer be selling the cases without the return of another 024 case, the supply of newly built sm300’s from factory parts has all but dried up- and so did the market. So those who have them are holding and those that were building them are out of parts…supply and demand.

And at this point I don’t think it’s actually fair to compare a Watchco to a vintage SM300. Several years ago it was just a cheaper alternative to the vintage, but I think the watchco has taken on its own mystique as the only modern 300 “reissue” thus less fragile.
I know several members here who could have afforded a vintage 300 and chose a watchco specifically becuase it is a “modern” watch. Some members own both and the watchco is their daily beater.

Edited: Oct 14, 2022

 

[speedamatuer]

Revo

With respect a real SM300 is a lot more.

Here's one that just sold for £6,300 (£4.5k hammer + 40% (20% fees and 20% VAT) = £6,300.)

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/...dad74b-3cd0-4ca8-92b1-af2701150fa8#lotDetails

Not quite - VAT is only paid on the fees, so total is £5,580.

The condition looks good from a very quick look, and with the bracelet too that seems like a good price to me. Absolutely worth 2k over a WatchCo if one can be found at 3.5k IMO.

 

[Shabbaz]

JwRosenthal

Since the announcement from Omega last year that they would no longer be selling the cases without the return of another 024 case, the supply of newly built sm300’s from factory parts has all but dried up- and so did the market. So those who have them are holding and those that were building them are out of parts…supply and demand.

And at this point I don’t think it’s actually fair to compare a Watchco to a vintage SM300. Several years ago it was just a cheaper alternative to the vintage, but I think the watchco has taken on its own mystique as the only modern 300 “reissue” thus less fragile.
I know several members here who could have afforded a vintage 300 and chose a watchco specifically becuase it is a “modern” watch. Some members own both and the watchco is their daily beater.

I still have regrets that I did'nt bought a watchco as a daily beater next to the 165.024. Now they are expensive

 

[Concretepuppy]

JwRosenthal

The easy tell is the color of the numbers on the bezel- the older Bakelite are yellow and the newer ones are white.
Bakelite was a form of plastic but had properties closer to glass (think of those old black plastic ashtrays on every diner table when you could smoke in public). As it aged it got more brittle and was prone to cracking under stress (hence finding a crack free bezel on a vintage watch with one is always a goal).
Modern bezels that are meant to be “like” Bakelite are usually just acrylic- which is a natural progression of the technology IMO.
Some micro brands have done a few real Bakelite bezels and it is a marketing tool for them, but the ones in our Watchco’s are just acrylic.

Thanks, I expected it to be acrylic or another similar material, and didn't particularly believe the person who sold it to me but didn't mind the bezel being non Bakelite,
they and their integrity as a seller later turned out to be a topic of debate on this forum anyhow, which then explained their Bakelite bezel fantasy/nonsense

 

[Davidt]

Revo

With respect a real SM300 is a lot more.

Here's one that just sold for £6,300 (£4.5k hammer + 40% (20% fees and 20% VAT) = £6,300.)

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/...dad74b-3cd0-4ca8-92b1-af2701150fa8#lotDetails

I was bidding on that SM300 yesterday. I was the under bidder and I’m kicking myself for not bidding more.

In answer to the OP. Obviously try and get/keep both but if it’s a call either way I’d go with a vintage 300. You can quite easily add a 70’s Speedmaster later

 

[Dash1]

Davidt

I was bidding on that SM300 yesterday. I was the under bidder and I’m kicking myself for not bidding more.

Bad luck. That watch was a real bargain imo. I would have bid had I not bought a watch earlier in the week, plus I thought it would go much higher!