Should I Send This To Rolex?

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I don't think anyone is arguing that Rolex doesn't have the right to set their own terms. But IMO, their policies are incredibly lame, arrogant, greedy, authoritative and insensitive to their customer's needs and desires. With the slightest inclination and effort, they could do much better, despite their false claims. So yes ... I would say it's a cop out.

I think your reply and reasoning speaks for itself. You seem to have a deeply emotional response to Rolex. It's the old Ford vs Chevy syndrome.
 
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I think your reply and reasoning speaks for itself. You seem to have a deeply emotional response to Rolex. It's the old Ford vs Chevy syndrome.

My guess is that many readers will disagree with your analysis, so I'm not sure my reasoning "speaks for itself" in the way you'd like to believe. Your response, on the other hand, is a transparent attempt to trivialize my opinions by labeling them as emotion.

I like Rolex watches very much, and own about a dozen. But as a company, Rolex has made some choices that I disagree with strongly. Like all humans, some of my thoughts are based in emotion, but I think that my dislike of their business practices is mostly rational.
 
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I think your reply and reasoning speaks for itself. You seem to have a deeply emotional response to Rolex. It's the old Ford vs Chevy syndrome.

I think the difference here is that people can love the watches, but not believe that everything the company does is the best way of doing things, just because of who they are. People who defend the company no matter what they do are the Ford v Chevy people in my experience...
 
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I do it every day mate. I stabilize lume all the time on vintage watches, and I fully warranty my work. This isn't some risky rare procedure that only a few people do - watchmakers all over the world do this every single day. Service centers just choose not to do this simple procedure, so they just replace the hands or dial.

You may believe that what Rolex chooses is all fair and good practice, and if you feel that way, it matters not to me really. You do whatever you wish with your watches - you can smash them with a hammer if you like. But let's not pretend that Rolex is acting in the customer's best interests here, because they are certainly not.

Service centers take short cuts all the time for the sake of saving a few minutes here or a few minutes there. This is why they replace entire mainspring barrels instead of just the spring, and for the most part waste the barrel drum, barrel cover, and barrel arbor. This is why instead of bushing a worn hole in a plate, the replace the entire plate. Burnishing rough pivots - nope they just replace the wheel. Watchmakers who work in service centers have hard won skills that they are not really allowed to use, because the brand policies turn them into parts replacers.

Rolex certainly has the right to service the watches however they want to, which is why people who are considering sending a watch there need to understand that Rolex is looking after their own interests, not the interests of the watch owner. If you want to argue that people shouldn't be informed of what may happen to their valuable vintage watch when they send it to the brand, well we will disagree on that stance until the end of time...

I don't think we disagree, but I do think you are only willing to look at one side of the coin. Rolex, Omega, Patek, as well as 99.99% of all modern industry, decides to replace rather than repair old parts. Auto mechanics, washing machine repairman, plumbers and electricians, even heart surgeons...the world has moved away from craftsmen using their amazing skills to repair something worn, and moved to throwing out the old part and plugging in the new. And most often the new part is marginally better at best, but it is just more efficient to replace than repair. And safer (and less expensive) to warranty. I'm not saying I like it, I am saying that it is their right to do so, and I don't criticize them for making a good business decision. Collectors of vintage watches are living in the last century...the age of the mechanical machine. The 21st Century is already the age of the electronic device. I think this will be a bigger blow to the mechanical watch than the Japanese digital watches of the seventies.
 
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Collectors of vintage watches are living in the last century...the age of the mechanical machine. The 21st Century is already the age of the electronic device.

All mechanical watches are “last century” because as soon as quartz watches came along, they were obsolete.

If you are not willing to criticize a company for acting in their own selfish interest, and acting at the expense of the customers interests when they don’t have to, that’s up to you. I am, and I’m willing to admit that sometimes they act in a way that is disrespectful to their customers, and even their own heritage.

I’m quite sure that if these companies were willing to listen to what vintage watch owners wanted when they send the watches for servicing, the companies would get a lot more business than they do now, and could easily charge a good premium for that service. So your claim that this is a good business decision doesn’t really hold.

By the way, you are dead wrong about all watch companies acting the same. Mid-tier brands like Rolex and Omega don’t care about their heritage any more than what they can exploit in order to sell new watches. Companies the are true high end makers are far more respectful of their own heritage and the customer. They certainly do repair parts instead of replacing them.
 
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All mechanical watches are “last century” because as soon as quartz watches came along, they were obsolete.

If you are not willing to criticize a company for acting in their own selfish interest, and acting at the expense of the customers interests when they don’t have to, that’s up to you. I am, and I’m willing to admit that sometimes they act in a way that is disrespectful to their customers, and even their own heritage.

I’m quite sure that if these companies were willing to listen to what vintage watch owners wanted when they send the watches for servicing, the companies would get a lot more business than they do now, and could easily charge a good premium for that service. So your claim that this is a good business decision doesn’t really hold.

By the way, you are dead wrong about all watch companies acting the same. Mid-tier brands like Rolex and Omega don’t care about their heritage any more than what they can exploit in order to sell new watches. Companies the are true high end makers are far more respectful of their own heritage and the customer. They certainly do repair parts instead of replacing them.

If you think Rolex rapes its repair customers, ask Patek for an estimate on servicing one of their watches. For all the watch manufacturers, the service and repair business in miniscule compared to selling new watches. Patek, and maybe Rolex, now have special "vintage" repairs and they are much pricier than a normal service. Where we seem to disagree is that, in my opinion when Rolex (or Omega or Patek or Ford or BMW, etc.) acts in their own self interest, they are indirectly acting also in the customers' interests. Their first responsibility is to make a profit and survive. If they go out of business, then their customers really suffer.
 
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This has been an interesting discussion to watch because I know a watchmaker at a Rolex dealer, and he is also a collector himself, to a certain extent. I find it interesting that (assuming I am remembering right, don't blame him) that he can service the newer pieces, but the older and vintage past a certain date must be returned to Rolex for service.

I have recently handled an Explorer that his store has as a display piece, and I believe I shall buy one when funds become available and they receive an allotment to sell, as I am now "on the list". We'll see how it goes... at some point, assuming I can get one, it will require service. Whether that will be in my lifetime as I have a couple dozen watches I rotate through, I don't know.
 
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Patek, and maybe Rolex, now have special "vintage" repairs and they are much pricier than a normal service.
Omega does as well... and they claim, if a part is not available, they will make it. I can see that being worth the price.
 
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I find it interesting that (assuming I am remembering right, don't blame him) that he can service the newer pieces, but the older and vintage past a certain date must be returned to Rolex for service.

Maybe the opposite. A typical RSC won't service older watches. They will just say they don't have the parts and send them back to you. The specific cutoff appears to depend on the specific RSC and their parts availability. Currently, 1970s watches are a bit hit or miss. Some will be serviced by some RSCs, but others not.

An independent watchmaker (and your acquaintance may fall into this category, even though he works at an AD) can service whatever he wants. But he may or may not have a Rolex parts account, which have become very difficult to maintain. There is an additional complication, which is that Rolex reserves certain parts (including almost all parts for certain references) for their factory service centers, and won't provide them to independent watchmakers with parts accounts.
Edited:
 
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If you think Rolex rapes its repair customers, ask Patek for an estimate on servicing one of their watches. For all the watch manufacturers, the service and repair business in miniscule compared to selling new watches. Patek, and maybe Rolex, now have special "vintage" repairs and they are much pricier than a normal service. Where we seem to disagree is that, in my opinion when Rolex (or Omega or Patek or Ford or BMW, etc.) acts in their own self interest, they are indirectly acting also in the customers' interests. Their first responsibility is to make a profit and survive. If they go out of business, then their customers really suffer.

Rape? Curious word to use, and not really related to anything I’ve said, so not sure what relevance this has. Good work costs money, so I have no problem paying for it, and most vintage collectors don’t either.

What we do have a problem with is the watch being devalued while we pay for it.

As for them doing whatever is needed to make a profit and survive, well that can certainly lead to very bad places...
 
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Maybe the opposite. A typical RSC won't service older watches. They will just say they don't have the parts and send them back to you. The specific cutoff appears to depend on the specific RSC and their parts availability. Currently, 1970s watches are a bit hit or miss. Some will be serviced by some RSCs, but others not.

An independent watchmaker (and your acquaintance may fall into this category, even though he works at an AD) can service whatever he wants. But he may or may not have a Rolex parts account, which have become very difficult to maintain. There is an additional complication, which is that Rolex reserves certain parts (including almost all parts for certain references) for their factory service centers, and won't provide them to independent watchmakers with parts accounts.
My understanding is that watches with a four-digit reference number cannot be serviced at his store, they must be sent to Rolex in Switzerland. It's a requirement in their affiliation/contract with Rolex as a dealer. They are certainly not independent in this respect. They do indeed have a parts account, factory training, and certain machines required to do what Rolex requires during service. But the older ones, they cannot service.

As a private individual, he likely could, but I doubt he would jeapordize his job.
 
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I don’t understand why believing that Rolex (and other manufacturers) should help customers make an informed decision regarding their watches is a controversial position.

In general, there is a substantial information asymmetry when it comes to watch servicing. As the expert, Rolex can easily do more to educate customers about the range of options and their tradeoffs when it comes time to service. As a business, they can then offer a range of services at appropriate prices to meet customer preferences as they will inevitably vary — be it a complete refinish or a collector-grade vintage treatment.

The fact that they choose not to do this seems more than worthy of criticism.
 
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My watchmaker friend at the Rolex store tells me that a customer can choose to not have a case refinish, for example. I don't know whether that's universal, but....
 
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I get the feeling we've beat this horse to death.

As it has many times before, and will be again...
 
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As it has many times before, and will be again...

And we can always count on the same members to participate. 😉
 
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And we can always count on the same members to participate. 😉

Indeed...
 
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Snorkel!



Awwww shit, it’s over.

You can just wait for the next one - it will be along soon. Like the water resistance discussions that sparked the Snorkel refrain, misinformation never dies...it just slips under the water for a while before coming to the surface again.
 
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No need.

I send my Rolex to Rolex services was very expensive and I can do the same with a regular watchmaker