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Should I keep this Speedmaster B4 dial?

Laneside
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I recently bought a 145.022-68 transitional. I knew it had a B4 dial when I bought it and was going to replace the dial with a spare 861 B3 which I have. It has just arrived, and seeing it now, I'm torn.

The watch has the wrong Chrono hand, wrong 1171 bracelet and wrong crown. Movement is great, all working and at least 6 sets of watchmakers marks on the case rear.

Does anyone have an opinion please?

20241114_132749.webp 20241114_132810.webp 20241114_132857.webp 20241114_132901.webp 20241114_132905.webp 20241114_132922.webp 20241114_132928.webp 20241114_133413.webp 20241114_133428.webp
 
hansaboy
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Ok, now I understand...😆
Weird one...applied metal logo, but short indices??

The lume on this dial looks awful, so please change the dial.
You could always send it for a relume (Hyman...), and also try and clean the dial from the blemishes (maybe)?
 
Laneside
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hansaboy hansaboy
Ok, now I understand...😆
Weird one...applied metal logo, but short indices??

The lume on this dial looks awful, so please change the dial.
You could always send it for a relume (Hyman...), and also try and clean the dial from the blemishes (maybe)?
Thank you for your reply Hansaboy.
I totally agree that the dial lume is terrible. I have another 145.022-68 with a Speedmaster101 'perfect' B3 spaced T dial...... so not really a comparison. The surface of the B4 dial is 'rough' rather than smooth, leading me to think that's it is a service dial and the state of deterioration of the lume leads me to think it is a vintage service dial. But I may be wrong?

I'm happy to ask James Hyman to relume but I'm uncertain if the extra cost is warranted.
I have no idea how rare these B4 dials are? Before anyone points out that rare does not equal valuable, from a collectors view (rather than a watch seller), should I keep it?
 
Davidt
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So is your other dial loose or in a watch. If loose I would certainly swap and keep this as a spare but it’s a subjective decision
 
Laneside
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Davidt Davidt
So is your other dial loose or in a watch. If loose I would certainly swap and keep this as a spare but it’s a subjective decision
Thank you for your reply. I have 2 x 145.022 -68's. The other dial is in a watch.
 
Laneside
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SOG53 SOG53
What is condition of new dial? Photo?
Can I please refer you to my 14 November 24 post which has lots of dial pictures.
 
Davidt
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Laneside Laneside
Thank you for your reply. I have 2 x 145.022 -68's. The other dial is in a watch.
Unless I'm missing it, you haven't posted pictures of your other -68.

Either way, i wouldn't be swapping them around unless the dial in the other is both non-original and the case is worse. If you start swapping parts, even from the same reference, to create one good and one average watch, you're still going down the road of reducing originality imo so it wouldn't be something I'd be rushing to do.
 
Laneside
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Davidt Davidt
Unless I'm missing it, you haven't posted pictures of your other -68.

Either way, i wouldn't be swapping them around unless the dial in the other is both non-original and the case is worse. If you start swapping parts, even from the same reference, to create one good and one average watch, you're still going down the road of reducing originality imo so it wouldn't be something I'd be rushing to do.
I'm not swapping anything between my watches. My other 145.022 - 68 is excellent, was purchased from Speedmaster101, and will not be touched. The watch in question has a B4 dial which is a) original dial or b) a service dial. To state the obvious, if it is a service dial then it's not the original anyway. Options then are: keep as is, keep the B4 dial and relume, replace with a B3 dial? How uncommon are B4 dials? ................. does anyone else have one?
 
Davidt
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This is getting confusing. I'm sure somewhere you said you had another B3 dial and were considering putting it in this watch??

Either way, whether to relume or keep as-is, or replace is very subjective. It's also not going to be easy to source a B3 in the first place. Personally I'd relume the dial you have (someone like JH) and stick with that. Like many of the vintage service dials, I would think B4's are quite uncommon.
 
Ron_W
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I think this dial already had work done on the lume, and not very good.
It is not an attractive dial for me so change it with either ;
A another B3 or B4 dial if you can find one
B if you can not find a nice dial for 1K or less, it is worth it to have this dial restored and put back.

Why did you buy this watch anyway, already having a better one, without deciding beforehand what to do with it ?
 
Laneside
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Davidt Davidt
This is getting confusing. I'm sure somewhere you said you had another B3 dial and were considering putting it in this watch??

Either way, whether to relume or keep as-is, or replace is very subjective. It's also not going to be easy to source a B3 in the first place. Personally I'd relume the dial you have (someone like JH) and stick with that. Like many of the vintage service dials, I would think B4's are quite uncommon.
David, Thank you for your advice as always.............. I believe I will ask JH to relume the dial ............ it won't be for a few months ............ I'll let you know how I get on.
 
Laneside
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Ron_W Ron_W
I think this dial already had work done on the lume, and not very good.
It is not an attractive dial for me so change it with either ;
A another B3 or B4 dial if you can find one
B if you can not find a nice dial for 1K or less, it is worth it to have this dial restored and put back.

Why did you buy this watch anyway, already having a better one, without deciding beforehand what to do with it ?
Thank you Ron,

I'll ask James Hyman to relume and restore. I like transitionals, and usually limit myself to 2 of any type. What to do with them? ......... pass them on to my children.
 
Ron_W
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Laneside Laneside
Thank you Ron,

I'll ask James Hyman to relume and restore. I like transitionals, and usually limit myself to 2 of any type. What to do with them? ......... pass them on to my children.

One each.... a nice thought 👍
 
Laneside
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Davidt Davidt
This is getting confusing. I'm sure somewhere you said you had another B3 dial and were considering putting it in this watch??

Either way, whether to relume or keep as-is, or replace is very subjective. It's also not going to be easy to source a B3 in the first place. Personally I'd relume the dial you have (someone like JH) and stick with that. Like many of the vintage service dials, I would think B4's are quite uncommon.
David,
I've gone through my box of parts and I do have a nice B3 dial spare. I have a feeling that my Watchmaker told me it was for a 321 movement which I believe won't fit the 861 movement on this transitional as the dial legs are slightly longer. If so, I'll probably ask JH to relume the B4 dial.
 
Laneside
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hansaboy hansaboy
Ok, now I understand...😆
Weird one...applied metal logo, but short indices??

The lume on this dial looks awful, so please change the dial.
You could always send it for a relume (Hyman...), and also try and clean the dial from the blemishes (maybe)?
Text I've sent to Davidt,

I've gone through my box of parts and I do have a nice B3 dial spare. I have a feeling that my Watchmaker told me it was for a 321 movement which I believe won't fit the 861 movement on this transitional as the dial legs are slightly longer. If so, I'll probably ask JH to relume the B4 dial.
 
Spacefruit
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As this is a very rare dial, I would leave it in.
I would consider a JH relume as it has already had some work
 
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