Forums Latest Members
  1. vanvan Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    98
    Likes
    462
    Hi, wanted to ask uf anyone had had experience in selling (private sale) their used watches to EU countries. I have my old Oris on sale on Chrono24 as a private seller and had an offer from Germany but I am sceptical in case the buyer occurs an custom duty. The sale is for £700. Does anyone know if you post something as a gift to the EU with value of £700 if custom duties apply?
    Thanks.
     
  2. Zephyr550 Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    55
    Likes
    191
    Since Brexit there can be both customs and VAT. Usually the biggest issue is VAT (because of its value comparing to the customs). If you mark the watch as returning from repair service, it should be fine I think (even if insured to its full value).
     
  3. vanvan Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    98
    Likes
    462
    Sorry I should have said I am based in the UK and selling/posting to the EU.

    Thanks Zephyr, very useful. I have warned my potential buyer in Germany, I don't him to get surprised with additional costs.

    Shame really all these additional costs now we are Brexitland...
     
  4. watchyouwant ΩF Clairvoyant Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    5,121
    Likes
    8,623
    Not really. You must ask the seller in his own best interest to pay something via PayPal ( maybe pounds 100) for a repair , stated in the PayPal text. With case or mvmt number as proof. The balance must be extra . Bankwire maybe best. If that works, German customs will charge Vat on the repair value plus shipma costs. That is your best case scenario .....
     
    Mark020 and cristos71 like this.
  5. hronists Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    272
    Likes
    847
    Even if you mark it as gift, buyer should pay VAT. And I don’t recommend you to mark commercial shipment as gift.
     
  6. vanvan Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    98
    Likes
    462
    Thanks again everyone. I will probably stick to a UK buyer.
     
  7. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    16,311
    Likes
    44,718
    What’s it matter to you. Sell it at the price you want and that’s it.

    Duty is the buyers concern not yours. I pay 10% in Australia if it’s picked up but that’s my cost not the sellers
     
  8. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    16,311
    Likes
    44,718
    Advising someone to fraudulently fill out a customs declaration :whipped:
     
  9. Zephyr550 Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    55
    Likes
    191
    I don’t mind customs. But I don’t understand why VAT shall be applied on used items. There is no “value added” at all. VAT was paid when sold new. This is just theft from policy makers.
     
    richiv and Motik like this.
  10. befobe Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    1,295
    Likes
    7,690
    If you use Fedex for example: you have to specify 2 prices: the declared value (it's up to you to indicate 0, as a gift, but risky IMHO) and the insurance value if you want one.
    Of course, both prices must be coherent... customs are not stupid and they look at that.
    Tva will be calculated from the declared value.

    The worst case is: you declare a "book", as a gift, at 0, and insurance at 5000...
    This is a big warning for the custom, and you can be sure your parcel will be opened.
    I know it happens... (I have a friend who works in Roissy, at french customs...)

    I sometimes make a deal with the seller, but I take a risk: I send 1000 to the seller, ask him to declare 500 and insure at 500. For a vintage watch, price is very very linked to condition, so, it can work, I usually ask the seller to indicate that the watch is without any garantee and needs a repairing service. I don't know if it helps, but again, it is a "possible and usual" case. For a brand new watch... I don't play of course... Again, customs have internet, they know the watch market, they know ch24. Easy to find a market price for a new watch.

    Of course you can be a real player, declare a Rolex as a "book", as a gift, with no insurance. It can work... All parcels are not opened...

    Anyway, fully agree with @STANDY : it is on the buyer side...
     
    Mark020 likes this.
  11. Zephyr550 Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    55
    Likes
    191
    I have a question: If you sell a watch here with profit, do you put it in your income tax declaration?
     
  12. Paul m Wishes he were an Aussie Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    95
    Likes
    170
    Having bought several watches from the US fees are expected and paid accordingly.it’s what keeps the hospitals and schools running.
     
    TimeODanaos and watchyouwant like this.
  13. abgul Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    185
    Likes
    176
    Very dicey and I wouldn't recommend it. Big pain.
     
  14. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    16,311
    Likes
    44,718
    Don’t sell here for profit, being there is a lot of collectors here that don’t sell or flip for upgrades but just buy the upgrade to start with.

    But I do work in the field that catches people lying on government decelerations all day everyday :D
     
    Concretepuppy, Archer and wagudc like this.
  15. Speedmasterfan88 Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    1,294
    Likes
    4,358
    Just an FYI,
    shipping from the UK to GER is a giant mess at the moment.
    I bought two watches from the UK in the last two months and both became a nightmare.
    Because of the Brexit and everything that comes along with it. One parcel was send with DHL the other one with UPS.
    Both took nearly two months to arrive in Germany.
    One parcel came in as an empty envelope with nothing in it. Both watches were declared lost at some point.
    One was missing a proper invoice for export. On the other I had to pay import duties twice only to get reimbursed by UPS after multiple calls.

    Both me and the sellers spent hours on the phone with UPS/DHL, dozens of emails etc.

    I would highly recommend you to stick with a local buyer until shipping agency’s have figured out and automated their processes for shipments abroad where taxes are due.

    cheers,

    Max
     
    KP-99, WatchWalker and Eve like this.
  16. vanvan Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    98
    Likes
    462
    Thanks Max, will certainly take your advice. Cheers.
     
    Speedmasterfan88 likes this.
  17. Amg786s Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    284
    Likes
    468
    If it's a high value sale, then it's probably better/ cheaper for a EU buyer to hop on a cheap flight to the UK and collect the watch in person? I'm assuming they could just wear the watch back. Seller could post the empty box/ papers I suppose?
     
  18. vanvan Apr 24, 2021

    Posts
    98
    Likes
    462
    Not an expensive watch, it's an Oris worth £600-700.
     
  19. Elitr6 Apr 25, 2021

    Posts
    263
    Likes
    1,526
    And there's also the hotel quarantine to factor in. You would have to really want the watch!
     
  20. jmnav Apr 25, 2021

    Posts
    54
    Likes
    40
    Quite off-topic, but the rationale is simple: VAT is a tax on the whole value chain which is payed by the last member of the chain. There is a "trick" tough since, how do you "value" "value"? Simple answer is you directly map "value" to "price". If you bought something for X and sold it for X+delta, "delta" is the added value that you will pay taxes for. Note "delta" can be either a positive or a negative number. When you have to set your VAT declaration, you sum up all VAT that you collected from your sellings and detract all the VAT you had to pay to others from your buyings. If then it happens you collected VAT in excess, you return it to your government (since VAT is not payed to independent agents, but always to government: you merely collect it temporarily on its name).

    That's the rationale. Now: does reality always map to rationale? I.e.: if you are not acting in a professional stanza you don't collect nor pay business-related taxes so no VAT should be involved while sometimes, i.e. trans-border operations, it might happen. It should be either petty money (one watch a year?), or the problem, if volume is high, may be a different one: maybe you are acting professionally in disguise and thus, comitting tax fraud.
     
    Archer likes this.