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Seeking advice - opinions on local find.

S
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Hello all, first post and potentially first vintage watch.

This is in a local jewellers and recently was received from the child of the 1st owner with the original case - I've spent all afternoon trying to work out what it is after a brief look and minimal horology knowledge prior.

From what I can gather from some google-fu it appears to me to be a CK 2169 (30T2); but has someone repainted the 15 and 45 sub-dial markers on upright? Also what's up with the gold looking bezel with Swiss Made marked?

The back is unmarked too (and it looks like a 50's strap to me) - so I'm assuming it's both not a Suverän (CK 2400) or CK 2383, because of the numeral marked sub-dial?

They're asking approx £750 but given those things and the rust spots that feels potentially a touch high to my inexperienced eye.

Thanks for your collective knowledge!
 
429611703_870977234716999_2302459971691911541_n.jpg
X350 XJR
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You're going to need some much better photos to give you any meaningful input.
 
Dan S
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We are going to need better photos. The bezel looks stainless. I don't know what you mean about the 15 and 45 markers on upright. The dial has nothing to do with the reference. Each reference had many dials. Can you see the inside of the caseback?

The value will depend on condition, originality, and the size of the case. We really can't judge any of those things, although even from that photo the dial and hands look damaged and the lugs look very polished. Assuming it is about 35mm and everything is totally original, I still can't imaging paying more than one-third of the asking price. The dial looks very bad.
 
S
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That's pretty much all I needed to hear at this point really.
They weren't able to provide me any information off hand - I'll see about some better pictures tomorrow.
I'm not sure they have a clue what it is either.
Thank you for your immediate input!
 
Dan S
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Don't get too hung up on identifying it. The value really doesn't depend too much on the specific reference unless it's something special (e.g. military issued). I buy lots of watches where I can only guess the reference. It's a black dial, XXmm, hand-winding, stainless, Omega from the 1940s. The condition is really the issue, and the price obviously.
 
S
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For sure, I was working on the understanding that if I could identify it then I could potentially find a working estimate online.
I've been after a named 1940s watch for a while - I use an inherited Benson half-hunter for civilian war-impression purposes at the moment but am honouring my great-grandfather (whom was RAF ground crew) with an impression soon for teaching purposes.
I've got around £600-700 to spend and this happened to catch my eye locally, the budget won't reach a 6B/159; an ATP isn't necessarily appropriate whereas a civilian private purchase suits.

I wasn't sure if it was the crystal or the dial that was marked, but it's as cloudy as it looks sadly.
Edited:
 
Dan S
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S Stuckinthe40s
For sure, I was working on the understanding that if I could identify it then I could potentially find a working estimate online.
Yes, I figured that. But it can be hard to find a large number of comps for a single reference, so it's generally easier to use comps to the broader category of watches as I suggested above, by focusing on the relevant features, and then adjusting for condition. Remember, you can only use actual sales prices as comps.
S Stuckinthe40s
I wasn't sure if it was the crystal or the dial that was marked, but it's as cloudy as it looks sadly.
That patchiness is typical of damage to the dial lacquer. But in general, to distinguish damage to the dial vs the crystal is to look from various angles. Dial damage will always appear to be in the same places.
Edited:
 
S
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Dan S Dan S
it can be hard to find a large number of comps for a single reference, so it's generally easier to use comps to the broader category of watches as I suggested above, by focusing on the relevant features, and then adjusting for condition. Remember, you can only use actual sales prices as comps.

In which case, from this afternoon's searching and approximation based on your advice above, they must feel it worth the price requested based on the damage present - rightly or wrongly. They're a small town jeweller that (dare I say) has delusions of grandeur, so therefore may well have equated 1940s + Omega = 1k+ but minus present condition = price...

Excuse amateur parlance.
 
Dan S
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It's pretty typical for a local retail store to ask prices that collectors would find absurd. Of the hundreds of vintage watches I've purchased, none have been from a retail jewelry store.
 
S
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Dan S Dan S
It's pretty typical for a local retail store to ask prices that collectors would find absurd. Of the hundreds of vintage watches I've purchased, none have been from a retail jewelry store.

That follows, and is certainly sound advice on anything vintage.
 
Dan S
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S Stuckinthe40s
That follows, and is certainly sound advice on anything vintage.
It's always worth looking everywhere. But the vast majority of vintage watches have major condition issues or unrealistic prices. It's unfortunate, but that's reality. So you just need to look and look and look.
 
S
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kyle L kyle L
Agreed - unfortunately this size doesn't get a lot of love. Probably £400 and under is where you want to be.

Appreciate the insight Kyle.

They'll be willing to work with me on price but I don't think anywhere near that far, especially given they seem to believe the case is somewhat of a rarity and worth 3 figures alone. It's in good condition but I've not enough experience to know where that stands.
 
cristos71
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I have to say as a jeweller's they have a gall trying to sell that watch at that price in such filthy condition. No attempt to even wipe it clean or rmove that dreadful metal band and put it on some decent leather.....of course in the wild and cheap this is how I love to find them.....but in a shop and expensive...hmm, not so much 👎

I'd be looking to buy such a watch for no more than a couple of hundred quid, with the box. A service will cost another couple hundred probably as I doubt the jeweller has done that.
 
SOG53
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Its a small watch, original but with substantial dial lacquer degradation which is quite visible from wrist distance- as shown in first photo. This will not get better. And it comes with box that seller thinks is valuable. If you love the watch and the box, I would offer 400, keeping in mind a service and new strap will be needed for daily use. But I think most here would advise to wait for a better example.
 
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