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Seamaster pricing makes no sense to me

KingCobb
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The prices people ask for SMPs I find hilarious. People want almost as much for a 2nd gen seamaster as they do a 3rd gen. Meanwhile for the price some want for a really nice 3rd gen, you can get a nice used 4th gen that is still under warranty..... and then for a 7-800 more you can get one that's brand new?

Example
Brand new reference # 210.30.42.20.03.001 from June $4850 omega warranty
Mint reference # 210.30.42.20.03.001 from 2021 $4150 with omega warranty
Ref 212.30.41.20.03.001 from 2016 is listed for $3600
2531.80 they're wanting $3250 for.....

Maybe I'm just used to buying used guns, but I would think there would be a bigger drop in price going from new, to used, to older models.

Not complaining....just surprising to me.
 
gbesq
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Does it surprise you that the asking prices for some vintage Speedmasters exceed the retail price of the current model? For collectors, the latest and greatest isn’t necessarily what we always want.
 
noelekal
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On the other hand, vintage Seamasters from the 1950s and 1960s are bargains compared with the more recent used Seamasters whereas vintage blue steel and walnut guns cost more than last year's formerly "tacti-cool," aluminum alloy and molded plastic guns.
 
Alfista88
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Haha, not too dissimilar with Legos, cars, and other coveted items where the current production model (or technology) can be seen as less desirable than their products from years past which are now discontinued.

It's a principle of a free market economy for sellers to ask for what people are willing to pay, and the market will set the equilibrium. Sellers would not ask for that high, unless buyers are willing to go near it.
 
Zman4eva
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Sellers can list at any price they want. Just look at some of the outrageous or stale prices on Chrono24 or eBay. Whether they actually sell at those prices is another matter.
 
KingCobb
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I don't know, I am just used to finding more of a bargain when going the used route over the new.

I get people can ask what they want but still. I would have no interest in a 1st or 2nd generation smp unless it was substantially discounted from a 3rd gen.....

But that's my other issue, for the price of a good condition 3rd gen I'm almost there on buying a nice current generation......which I find to be the superior watch.


Looking at guns, yeah I can buy a used colt 1911 from the early 2000s for substantially less than what a new one would run me if comparable models. Getting into custom guns it's even bigger....
 
noelekal
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Yes, but you cannot buy a 1970s era Series 70 Colt Government Model (a variant of "the 1911" to most people) much less any post war commercial Governmenr Model for less than the price of a new Colt Government Model. Pre World War II Colt Government Models or any military contract Model 1911 or Model 1911-A1 are valued far higher still!
 
dsio
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So generally speaking I think the best value in these are 3rd generation ceramic Seamaster Pro 300M divers by far, they can be found around $3,000 which is IMO quite worth it. You can pay about $800-1200 more for a 4th generation but it isn’t a straight upgrade as its a larger watch and the thickness of it makes it somewhat less comfortable on the wrist, Cal 2500D and the ceramic bezel are excellent, durable and easy to maintain so that’s the sweet spot in gen 3.

Rough 1st and 2nd generation Seamaster Pros are cheap, often under $2k, because the cost of maintenance is high, that cost is mainly related to the bezel, which scratches easily and can only be replaced with a whole new assembly if using genuine parts. This is a big expense on top of the cost of a movement service, and as a result examples with good bezels or freshly replaced bezels carry a high cost accordingly. There are also a lot of less scrupulous dealers who fit aftermarket bezels to these to save money, and that is only increasing.

The second generation is the least desirable imo as if has earlier Cal 2500 variants (pre-D) and the fragile painted bezel.
 
sheepdoll
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Try pricing Cal 1342 quartz watches. Or f300 hummers.

Perception is everything. Curiously I was thinking of the similarity of gun and watchmaking the other day. They used to put mechanical singing birds in dueling pistols. I kid you not.

The question I was thinking to ask. What training is cheaper or more accessible? Gunsmithing or watchmaking? Are gunsmiths trustworthy? It looks like it would be easy to fake desirable gun parts. What sort of training do the gun manufactures require and do they restrict trade parts?
 
KingCobb
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noelekal noelekal
Yes, but you cannot buy a 1970s era Series 70 Colt Government Model (a variant of "the 1911" to most people) much less any post war commercial Governmenr Model for less than the price of a new Colt Government Model. Pre World War II Colt Government Models or any military contract Model 1911 or Model 1911-A1 are valued far higher still!
Your comparing what is viewed as superior craftsmanship and much better bluing to current production, plus your talking about guns that are 50 years old or more. They literally don't build a comparable colt to what you describe today.

A Gen 4 smp is very comparable and arguably superior to a gen 3 and vastly superior to a 1 and 2....

I know you used to be able to find good quality gen 3s below 3k, and that was good value, but I am not seeing many that are in good condition for less than 3500 currently which I feel is overpriced when I can find gen 4s in mint condition for 4k.
 
noelekal
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1962 Omega Seamaster


A bargain when compared with this 1967 Colt Government Model from the same decade.


Perhaps as you say, it depends on just how "vintage" a Seamaster you want to own and wear. Me? I'd argue that my simple hand wind, no-date, more dressy "town watch" '62 Seamaster on its leather strap is superior for my personal style and wearing habits than later (and larger) sports oriented Seamaster variants. I consider both the Omega and the Colt as "usin' goods" not just collectors' items. I still want to wear the watches and shoot the guns of my youth more than I wish to keep up with the latest and greatest.
 
noelekal
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Why yes, yes we both do, don't we?

 
gbesq
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dsio dsio
So generally speaking I think the best value in these are 3rd generation ceramic Seamaster Pro 300M divers by far, they can be found around $3,000 which is IMO quite worth it. You can pay about $800-1200 more for a 4th generation but it isn’t a straight upgrade as its a larger watch and the thickness of it makes it somewhat less comfortable on the wrist, Cal 2500D and the ceramic bezel are excellent, durable and easy to maintain so that’s the sweet spot in gen 3.

Rough 1st and 2nd generation Seamaster Pros are cheap, often under $2k, because the cost of maintenance is high, that cost is mainly related to the bezel, which scratches easily and can only be replaced with a whole new assembly if using genuine parts. This is a big expense on top of the cost of a movement service, and as a result examples with good bezels or freshly replaced bezels carry a high cost accordingly. There are also a lot of less scrupulous dealers who fit aftermarket bezels to these to save money, and that is only increasing.

The second generation is the least desirable imo as if has earlier Cal 2500 variants (pre-D) and the fragile painted bezel.
+1. Gen. 3 for the win. I sold mine to purchase the newest 300 Heritage (with no regrets), but the Gen. 3 SMP gave me 5+ years of trouble free service and it’s a beautiful design and very comfortable to wear.
 
JimInOz
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noelekal noelekal
Why yes, yes we both do, don't we?

I certainly hope that they are in chronological order, top to bottom/left to right.

😉
 
ErichPryde
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So.... isn't it a good thing that older models hold onto value? We can't have it both ways: they can't both be cheaper to purchase and hold onto value.

Also... gotta say there's something to a bit of bartering possibly going a long way. Just because it's listed at a certain price, doesn't mean you wind up paying that price.
 
ErichPryde
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KingCobb KingCobb
Well they aren't the guns of my youth but I certainly enjoy em.
20231013_104715_01.jpg 20230928_162736.jpg

tooth bottom left is ziphodont. Allosaur? If not, what therapod? Nice fossils as a whole with the palm and the megalodon tooth.
 
Aroxx
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2531.80 holds value because Pierce Brosnan is the best James Bond and GoldenEye kicks ass. Everybody wants the automatic version of that watch. Myself included.
 
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