Rolex vs Omega (not the usual stuff)

al128 · Mar 31, 2016

Another reason is observation bias... maybe caravelles or delbanas also have spider dials...it just so happens that nobody gives a duck...

Imho the internet 2.0 (forums) it's what made the wholev collectable thing... be it watches... guitars...cars... it's the discussion that creates interest

rhj · Mar 31, 2016

One of the most interesting threads on watch forums I ever read. Analyzing the meta level redefines collectors spirit newly and discovers the marketing strategy of the big players. For sure everyone fears to be played, but the emotional effect of wearing a watch will always be the save harbor to excuse this ....

styggpyggeno1 · Mar 31, 2016

There is one step I did not write about but which comes naturally after the ones I described:
1. Finding differences within the production.
2. Creating a percevied uniqueness by other means.

The third step is counterfeit/altered parts for vintage mass-produced watches. When money is in play some will do anything to get theirs. We have seen it in the Rolex part of the hobby. White text dials become red and lume get an even tan for that extra money. When the difference in price is extreme between the normal one and and an expensive one and it depends on 0,000001 gram red paint - something is going to happen.

3. Fake parts or "enhanced" original parts. With or without patina. Not replacement that are stated as that but parts that pose as the real thing and are sold as such.

I predict there soon will be parts made for vintage Speedmasters making them more valuable to a unknowing collector.

Nobel Prize · Mar 31, 2016

al128
Another reason is observation bias... maybe caravelles or delbanas also have spider dials...it just so happens that nobody gives a duck...

Imho the internet 2.0 (forums) it's what made the wholev collectable thing... be it watches... guitars...cars... it's the discussion that creates interest

No, sorry. I don't know how old you are but there where collectors of everything way way before the Internet.

Riviera Paradise · Mar 31, 2016

al128
Another reason is observation bias... maybe caravelles or delbanas also have spider dials...it just so happens that nobody gives a duck...

Imho the internet 2.0 (forums) it's what made the wholev collectable thing... be it watches... guitars...cars... it's the discussion that creates interest

Love the OP´s arguments and general thread discussion

I think the internet 2.0 argument (forums, blogs, youtube channels) raised by @al128 applies both to the vintage and modern watch market. Peer pressure / motivation, however subtle, is present even on a "light" social network such as this forum. We do seem to nudge each other to new purchases don´t we...in fact the lovely @meganfox17 doesn´t nudge you, she practically pushes you off the cliff.😀

I have not yet had the courage to dabble in vintage, but I do appreciate several vintage watches that I have seen on internet forums, especially here at omegaforums.net. I have found that I only appreciate vintage watches if they have a very distinct beautiful design or a very specific story to tell (specific owner, how they were used etc.)..but I would have a tough time buying a vintage watch just based on its history.

I cannot see myself ever collecting a vintage watch just because it had a fabrication error / ageing process making it more exclusive/expensive...the fabrication "cock-up" or ageing process would have to make the watch look better in some way to generate interest for me...such as the accidental cream dial Explorer IIs, for example...or the contrast of beige patina indices / hands against black dials, which does lead to a more interesting colour combo than just monochrome black and white....hence the recent deluge of modern faux patina reissues. Cheers.

Nobel Prize · Mar 31, 2016

styggpyggeno1
I predict there soon will be parts made for vintage Speedmasters making them more valuable to a unknowing collector.

As prediction go....

Riviera Paradise · Mar 31, 2016

meganfox17
Hi @Riviera Paradise
I heard You there !

The still bruising battered Gladiator who was one of the few left standing in the summa harena /main arena of the Colosseum ... I say...That Omega Rolex WrestleMania debates 2 weeks ago is still fresh in my mind You guys were funny ok...???

I'l l be getting the Blue Connie in 4-6 weeks time...let's see whether YOU can Beat me to it ! i'l post some pictures using my Canon EOS 600 D 18 Megapix but i'm still leaning this macro photography thinghy...

I say...Did you know the price of the new 40 mm Rolex Air-King calibre 3131 (more Anti Magnet apparently) is almost the same as the New Rolex Explorer 39 mm calibre 3132 (more shock proof ) .
I went to the Rolex boutique yesterday out of curiousity & was informed the New Explorer would arrive in Malaysia in Oct. And Yes.. the Old Explorer would be heavily discounted. They gave me a ballpark figure of around US4800.xx.
@Riviera Paradise is that a Good or a Bad thing ? Naahh..i 'm still getting the New Explorer...

Greetings @meganfox17....love your new avatar with you captured live in action posting with your mobile...you know we are going to be accused of hijacking this very serious "Victoria & Albert / classical museum / BBC 2 documentary style vintage Rolex vs Omega discussion thread😀...but hey spending some time locked up with you would be a riot.

As much as I really do adore the new Globemaster...you will soon find out why I might not end up purchasing one😲...I have been delaying doing a post on my one hour NY speed watch tourism thing as I did not take any bloody pictures of the watches I saw and feel a bit of a "twat" for not doing so 🤦. But I will do a "Visiting the Big Apple" post in the next hour or so....where all we be explained.

Ref the Explorer...I would certainly only get the new 39mm 2016 "Donald Trump" Explorer (look I´ve got big hands😀) or the 36mm version.

Cheers!

al128 · Mar 31, 2016

Nobel Prize
No, sorry. I don't know how old you are but there where collectors of everything way way before the Internet.

yes of course... but when did EVERYTHING go through the roof?
from vintage and non vintage porsches to 1960ies fender &gibsons to certain firearms, vinyls, wines, sneakers, brioni suits, hermes bags, APPLE devices, car customizing, - you name it...

the web2.0 took it to whole new levels... the whole concept of FANBOYS developed out of this...

shut up and take my money ...😗 anybody?

before the www2.0 we were mere amateurs

oddboy · Mar 31, 2016

styggpyggeno1
I predict there soon will be parts made for vintage Speedmasters making them more valuable to a unknowing collector.

Soon?

Nobel Prize · Mar 31, 2016

al128
yes of course... but when did EVERYTHING go through the roof?
from vintage and non vintage porsches to 1960ies fender &gibsons to certain firearms, vinyls, wines, sneakers, brioni suits, hermes bags, APPLE devices, car customizing, - you name it...

the web2.0 took it to whole new levels... the whole concept of FANBOYS developed out of this...

shut up and take my money ...😗 anybody?

before the www2.0 we were mere amateurs

No, in the collector world there has always been some crazy spikes and lows. Wether is art or watches. Maybe the pace was different but the craziness was the same. I grew up around coin and watch collectors and it was aways crazy way before the Internet

CajunTiger · Mar 31, 2016

al128
Another reason is observation bias... maybe caravelles or delbanas also have spider dials...it just so happens that nobody gives a duck...

Imho the internet 2.0 (forums) it's what made the wholev collectable thing... be it watches... guitars...cars... it's the discussion that creates interest

Honestly, I don't know any Rolex collectors that give a duck about Rolex spider dials either. They look like shit

Foo2rama · Apr 1, 2016

Riviera Paradise
Ref the Explorer...I would certainly only get the new 39mm 2016 "Donald Trump" Explorer (look I´ve got big hands😀) or the 36mm version.

Cheers!

Lol best thing I've read all week.

And 1655 Explorer II is where it is at. Oddly that watch prices are a perfect example of watches that jump in price. It somehow got named the Steve McQueen with no proof of him owning let alone wearing one and jumped from obscurity to 40k and has settled around 12k usd now. All from the Internet.

tyrantlizardrex · Apr 1, 2016

Nobel Prize
No, in the collector world there has always been some crazy spikes and lows. Wether is art or watches. Maybe the pace was different but the craziness was the same. I grew up around coin and watch collectors and it was aways crazy way before the Internet

Agree.

And Web 2.0 isn't where the forum stuff started, I was trading VW parts on a dial up bulletin board in back in 1999/2000.

To take an example of something in that area that's similar - price wise BBS racing wheels used to be £500 a set, they got featured in magazines a lot. Awareness/desirability goes up, and those that do have them, keep them. So supply goes down, demand goes up, prices rise.

There are not less BBS wheels, there are a lot of BBS wheels stashed away.

I've seen the same thing with vintage Speedmasters.

Platforms like this make a lot of the trading more public, so awareness takes another boost.

And then, similar to the old printed car magazines, Hodinkee (which my phone autocorrects to hoodwinked) feature a watch the desirability goes up.

sorry, not sure when this turned into a market forces discussion... 😉

Syrte · Apr 1, 2016

al128
yes of course... but when did EVERYTHING go through the roof?
from vintage and non vintage porsches to 1960ies fender &gibsons to certain firearms, vinyls, wines, sneakers, brioni suits, hermes bags, APPLE devices, car customizing, - you name it...

Hermes bags were always far beyond the roof.

styggpyggeno1 · Apr 1, 2016

oddboy
Soon?

and

Nobel Prize - "As prediction go...."

Tell me more, please. As I am not into speedys I am not uppdated - I am just the general theory man here...

gop76 · Apr 1, 2016

The following was written for a different subject than watches but, with little adaptations, it can be, i think, applied to watches (vintage or modern). Please note that we all participate on this: dealers, auction houses, collectors, occasional sellers, specialized publications and so on…

How to promote a product:

1. Advertising: a good product, to succeed in the market, does not dispense a strong and aggressive propaganda. The more the public hear about it better. The constant reference throughout the media (including internet sites and forums) gives visibility to an product and can turn it into a money making machine;

2. Guru: nothing better than to use a specialist in a particular matter, which have antenna space in the media (including internet sites and forums) to promote a product. The essential is to give them a voice so they can in laudatory tone and at the top of his wisdom and unquestionable experience that the product is without doubt the last coke in desert. Who can refute statements of such gurus?

3. Predicting the future: to make a product successful is not only necessary be good at the moment, the consumer must be convinced that will be good in the future. The consumer must be convinced that the product, that is already at a very high level, will be the market leader for many long years, surpassing all competition;

4. Brand: an article for being successful must belong to a strong brand. Many products have failed because although they are really good are not designed by a renowned brand. So to properly promote an article you must first affirm the brand in the market, selling to the consumer that the product is made with the best material, according to the strictest criteria and that any other brand does not guarantee, not even close, the same quality;

5. Indication Marketing: a simple, cheap and effective way to promote a product is made by the company's own employees where the product is developed. Obviously for them the product is the best and try to convince friends and family that this product is formidable and is an outrage not like such rarity;

6. Compare with the best: nothing like comparing the incomparable. A product needs to be leveled by the best, even if not remotely comparable.

7. Change: tries to convince the consumer that before the arrival of the product there was a void in the market that was filled with an extraordinary and surprising way. The product was revolutionary, came radically change the entire market and is something never seen before.

oddboy · Apr 1, 2016

styggpyggeno1
and

Nobel Prize - "As prediction go...."

Tell me more, please. As I am not into speedys I am not uppdated - I am just the general theory man here...

Well, there was that whole geometer Base 1000 bezel issue not long ago, fake DON inserts, aftermarket #6 endlinks (both from Japan and UK). I'm pretty sure there's more reluming going on than we know about or is admitted. FOIS hands being aged and sold as original alphas... I think there are some aftermarket movement parts as well, though I present no conclusive evidence of that (what is a 'generic hammer spring' I bought from cousinsuk?).

MSNWatch · Apr 1, 2016

It might seem counterintuitive that cal. 321 speedmasters price increase is aided in part by their relatively large production numbers but I believe that's the case here - it allows more collectors to get into the game and allows those so inclined to accumulate. I think this is similar to the art world where Picasso paintings continue to set record prices even though he was extremely prolific - because there is the ability to accumulate dozens of Picasso paintings (he made about 13,500 in his lifetime) vs. say van Gogh who was less prolific (about 900 paintings).

And then when you have the situation where there are very few 2915 and 2998 speedmasters in truly excellent and original condition (probably less than a few dozen of these survive in what @Spacefruit would consider collector condition) then you can see why these very few watches could in the future be worth a lot of money.

Archer · Apr 1, 2016

tyrantlizardrex
And Web 2.0 isn't where the forum stuff started, I was trading VW parts on a dial up bulletin board in back in 1999/2000.

Discussions on USENET via newsgroups were before that as well, so for me these were the first forums in a way...I have been tempted to *PLONK* some people but I'm not sure they would know what it means...😉

My first VM web browser was called Charlotte - text only!

tyrantlizardrex · Apr 1, 2016

Archer
Discussions on USENET via newsgroups were before that as well, so for me these were the first forums in a way...I have been tempted to *PLONK* some people but I'm not sure they would know what it means...😉

My first VM web browser was called Charlotte - text only!

USENET! Those were the days... TELNET into UNIX boards... Good times.

Rolex vs Omega (not the usual stuff)

al128

rhj

styggpyggeno1

Nobel Prize

Riviera Paradise

Nobel Prize

Riviera Paradise

al128

oddboy

Nobel Prize

CajunTiger

Foo2rama

tyrantlizardrex

Syrte

styggpyggeno1

gop76

oddboy

MSNWatch

Archer

tyrantlizardrex

Similar threads

Maybe The Best Of The Rolex vs. Omega

The usual newbie question, did they see me coming :-)

The Fascinating Mysteries of the Speedmaster BA345.0802: A Personal Reference Guide

Rolex vs Omega

Rolex Vs. Omega 2022

Shopping watch dealers on cruise ships (Regalia/Swiss Crown USA/Omega) - Quantum of the Seas, Australia 2025 with mini ship review