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"Regia Italiana" Longines pocket watch. Asking for opinions.

Modest_Proposal
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I need to pool community wisdom on this one. A silver Longines pocket watch with "Regia Italiana" in big script. But what does it mean?

The only script we've found is an old tobacco ad (found by Dirtydozen). It seems they sold product in Buenos Aires, which is where this watch was found. So that's probably the answer.

If anybody has other leads, feel free to contribute.

IMG_9675.jpeg IMG_9683.jpeg s-l1600.jpeg
Edited:
 
Radiumpassion
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I think you already solved this puzzle, does Longines archives mention
the «Regia Italiana» on the dial?

Interesting piece btw, I can`t remember ever seeing a Longines PW with a
non «horology» releated co-signature on the dial👍
 
Modest_Proposal
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Radiumpassion Radiumpassion
I think you already solved this puzzle, does Longines archives mention
the «Regia Italiana» on the dial?

Interesting piece btw, I can`t remember ever seeing a Longines PW with a
non «horology» releated co-signature on the dial👍

This is why I was double checking. I haven't seen this kind of "advertisement" before and the term seems just vague enough that it could refer to something else.
 
Vitezi
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There is another "Regia Italiana" example here:

e6b76778-9991-463c-8e79-51ec1264cfaf
12a75fa2-837f-4844-b871-0e863571c50a

https://www.subito.it/hobby-collezionismo/longines-regia-italiana-mantova-397824676.htm

The description reads: "Rare Longines military watch, given to the officers of the Italian royal. Perfectly preserved, functional and original watch. Pocket watch with silver case and perfect enamel dial. Case against case and movement with the same numbering, it's really rare"

I believe the Royal Italian military forces used the term "Regia Marina Italiana" for their navy, and "Regia Aeronautica Italiana" for their air force, but these were usually abbreviated as R. Marina or R. Aeronautica, like this:
Longines_deckwatch_R-Marina.jpg
upload_2023-1-5_21-49-49.jpeg
Edited:
 
upload_2023-1-5_21-49-49.jpeg
Modest_Proposal
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Vitezi Vitezi
There is another "Regia Italiana" example here:

e6b76778-9991-463c-8e79-51ec1264cfaf
12a75fa2-837f-4844-b871-0e863571c50a

https://www.subito.it/hobby-collezionismo/longines-regia-italiana-mantova-397824676.htm

The description reads: "Rare Longines military watch, given to the officers of the Italian royal. Perfectly preserved, functional and original watch. Pocket watch with silver case and perfect enamel dial. Case against case and movement with the same numbering, it's really rare"

I believe the Royal Italian military forces used the term "Regia Marina Italiana" for their navy, and "Regia Aeronautica Italiana" for their air force, but these were usually abbreviated as R. Marina or R. Aeronautica, like this:
Longines_deckwatch_R-Marina.jpg
upload_2023-1-5_21-49-49.jpeg

Thank you for these photos. Dirtydozen and I had been discussing these same examples privately. I'm not convinced that these are military-related. I'll contact Longines and see in which country it was originally sent. Whether it was Argentina or Italy will help clear it up.
 
mancio
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Vitezi Vitezi
There is another "Regia Italiana" example here:

e6b76778-9991-463c-8e79-51ec1264cfaf
12a75fa2-837f-4844-b871-0e863571c50a

https://www.subito.it/hobby-collezionismo/longines-regia-italiana-mantova-397824676.htm

The description reads: "Rare Longines military watch, given to the officers of the Italian royal. Perfectly preserved, functional and original watch. Pocket watch with silver case and perfect enamel dial. Case against case and movement with the same numbering, it's really rare"

I believe the Royal Italian military forces used the term "Regia Marina Italiana" for their navy, and "Regia Aeronautica Italiana" for their air force, but these were usually abbreviated as R. Marina or R. Aeronautica, like this:
Longines_deckwatch_R-Marina.jpg
upload_2023-1-5_21-49-49.jpeg
Yes, navy, army or Air Force were identified as Marina, esercito or Aereonautica. I have never seen Regia italiana alone used on anything that was related to Italian military during the monarchy.
 
bardamu
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Modest_Proposal Modest_Proposal
Thank you for these photos. Dirtydozen and I had been discussing these same examples privately. I'm not convinced that these are military-related. I'll contact Longines and see in which country it was originally sent. Whether it was Argentina or Italy will help clear it up.

I tend to agree on that.
Looks like something related to italian commercial products abroad.
Curious to know what Longines' archives have to say on this.
Nice watch though!
 
Vitezi
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Regia Italiana could indeed have been a manufacturer of cigarettes and cigars...some further advertising here:

317473179_834703861195109_8951526572379598390_n.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

upload_2023-1-8_12-48-52.png
Edited:
 
upload_2023-1-8_12-48-52.png
joeshoup
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Modest_Proposal Modest_Proposal
I need to pool community wisdom on this one. A silver Longines pocket watch with "Regia Italiana" in big script. But what does it mean?

The only script we've found is an old tobacco ad (found by Dirtdozen). It seems they sold product in Buenos Aires, which is where this watch was found. So that's probably the answer.

If anybody has other leads, feel free to contribute.

IMG_9675.jpeg IMG_9683.jpeg s-l1600.jpeg

I think you're right that this watch is branded for the Italian state tobacco monopoly, which traded under the name "Royal Italian" ("Regia" means "Royal"). In the early period of the enterprise, the Regia Italiana was

"the “Società Anonima per la Regìa Cointeressata dei Tabacchi.” A private syndicate of European financial organisations, for the 15-year period from 1869 to 1883 it ran the franchise of the operation of the entire tobacco industry in the newly formed Kingdom of Italy, from imports of raw materials and finished products, through manufacture, down to distribution to retailers of the more than hundred different tobacco products for sale in the country."

After 1883 the Italian state took over direct management of the tobacco monopoly, including production and marketing of Italian tobacco abroad - thus Piccardo & Co were the Buenos Aires importers of Regia Italiana products in the poster above.

For those who read Italian, here is a link to Antonio Ceci's very readable history of tobacco in Italy, including lots of detail on the Regia Italiana.

So this watch appears to have a company, rather than a military branding - though still a governmental entity. A cool item! It would be interesting to know whether this was delivered to Argentina, or to Italy. If the former one wonders if this was a reward for employees or distributors, like the Domino's Pizza Rolexes. If the latter, was it government issue like the railway watches?
 
Syrte
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Hi everyone,

Italian is very close to French and the term “Regia”, like the term “Regie” in French, is an old fashioned one but it’s meaning to me is quite clear, and the best translation I can venture in English is “Management agency”.

The advert (great find) clearly states:
“Regia Italiana” ie Italian Management Agency
Holder of tobacco monopoly
Ministry of Finance

While the term indeed comes from the same latin root as the words “regal”, or royal, it doesn’t relate to royalty- or the military.
The reason it carries this root is because it is an entity whose role is to be the chief; to direct, drive or manage;
note the word “regulation” also has the same root “REG” yet it’s not literally related to royalty.

It appear from a cursory reading that those entities in France may be operating under a government concession.

The French administrative system still has agencies called “Regie”.
At least one prominent one, the famed Paris metro is run by the regional transport authority called “RATP” which stands for “REGIE AUTONOME DES TRANSPORTS PARISIENS”.

There is also the “Régie dieppoise des activités portuaires” ie the Port Authority of the City of Dieppe.
Certain cities have a “Régie des eaux” ie a water management authority.

Other similar examples can be found I’m sure in many places in Italy or France.


Have a regal day- or a regular one if you prefer.
Edited:
 
joeshoup
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Thank you @Syrte. You're right of course about the other meaning of Regie/Regia, which is the same root as the English word regulation. But I wonder, given the prominent use of the coat of arms of Savoy on many of these advertisements (the shield with cross, with a crown on top), I wonder if they weren't playing on the ambiguity of the two meanings. (The house of Savoy was the Italian royal dynasty until 1946.) There is also the data point that the name of the monopoly was changed under the Republic. What do you think?
 
Syrte
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joeshoup joeshoup
Thank you @Syrte. You're right of course about the other meaning of Regie/Regia, which is the same root as the English word regulation. But I wonder, given the prominent use of the coat of arms of Savoy on many of these advertisements (the shield with cross, with a crown on top), I wonder if they weren't playing on the ambiguity of the two meanings. (The house of Savoy was the Italian royal dynasty until 1946.) There is also the data point that the name of the monopoly was changed under the Republic. What do you think?

Hi @joeshoup I can’t believe you managed to dig up a University of Chicago paper on this Regia Italiana and its history and activities! It is so cool.

Our Italian friends following this thread (and there are a couple at least) may be better placed than us to interpret all of this.

That being said, If this company held a government concession in a kingdom, it would be logical for it to carry royal emblems- just like in the Uk for retailers designated “by appointment to her majesty the Queen”.

In any event, it’ll be interestinf to try and read the full article you posted— proving that watches can open the door to just about anything, including a better understanding of industrial economics.
 
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