Recent Omega Negativity

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Of course! How could I forget these, Al? Such uncompromising examples of aesthetic loveliness. I mean, who wouldn't want to impress people with these beauties?
Precisely.
But out of the 2 brands (Omega and Rolex), who else but Rolex could get away with a leave pass for that kind of thing?
 
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Precisely.
But out of the 2 brands (Omega and Rolex), who else but Rolex could get away with a leave pass for that kind of thing?
Marketing works - quelle surprise....
 
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When I was at a local watch shop this weekend I had some time to page through Speedmaster Only and I snapped this photo:



It's interesting that a big portion of this debate puts emphasis on dilution of brand, when omega's additional expansion into fun and creative special edition watches in the early 90s ( coupled with the bond connection) that pushed them upwards in sales in the first place.

I have some additional thoughts here, but thought I would start with sharing this
 
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I will say that I think when a brand is picking up on popularity or when markets excited or demand is high for a particular product line, expansion of those lines is often met with positivity and excitement.

But, as market demand contracts, in the case of luxury items likely from Contracting demand or overall Market / Financial uncertainty, these extra product lines create the impression of ostentatiousness and waste, and met with negativity.

I suppose that's my fancy way of saying that overall pressure to the luxury watch Market is a vastly underrated factor.

A rising tide lifts all boats...
 
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The shaddows of the quartz crisis have been cast long and wide for Omega.
Please elaborate...
 
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The shaddows of the quartz crisis have been cast long and wide for Omega.
I noted this further upthread.

While there are similarities, It was noted that this was Devastating in ways hard to comprehend unless one was there. 1/3 the Swiss economy.

Yet the world did not notice as the predicted 'peak oil.' of the 1970s and deregulation of US gold reserves had more effect in creating the post 'peak' economy we have enjoyed since. In other words the Oil crisis shortage and pump price costs were what most people cared about.

It takes someone like Hyack or Jobs to create the new economy.

Omega and Swatch are currently like a ship without a captain. Or even a first mate. Rolex still has a first mate, or a better organized crew, but that could also change depending on how the currents and weather fair.

Somewhere I may still have an article about surface mount electronics called SMT. This article said that the letters actually stood for Suiss manufacturing technique. There was other crisis that is less known. That of home mostly 8mm cine photography. By the 1980s home camcorders (aka Back to the future.) were becoming more common. So the processing centers were shut down. Here in San Ramon (one of the branches of the Silicon Valley system) Switzerland did most of the processing in Europe and built the automated processing machines for consumer 8 and 16mm film.

This was repurposed into the manufacture of electronics. When one purchases reels of resistors capacitors or other components. They come on the same 8mm cine reels used for home vacation films.

So industries can re invent themselves.
 
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it's always easy to pick on the guy who is down....having said that, I think the biggest impact why Omega lost ranking is the increase of their prices.....look at the other four above them.....the clientele that they cater to can absorb the higher prices vs Omega's target buyer.....

As for the sharpness of the 3861 Speedy....the nixon bracelet does have hot spots when you put it on and as it moves around when you are wearing it on your wrist.....does it cut me...no....does it leave scratch marks....no....but it is not silky smooth like a Rolex........I only have an oyster bracelet to compare to....perhaps those who have models with Jubilee bracelets can chime in if the wearing experience is the same as the 3861 nixon bracelet....
100% agree regarding Omega's current pricing. Rolex has moved up in price and is now catering to the higher end of the market. They're able to do this because they have sufficient brand equity. Omega is trying to do the same but they can't. As a result, their potential customers are deserting them. They're either heading for better value watches like Tudor, TAG Heuer, Longines etc or saying "for that kind of money I may as well just get a Rolex". Much as it breaks my heart, I think Omega/Swatch group has shot itself in the foot and they're in big trouble.
 
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Ohhh firesale time ...

Omega/Swatch is probably too big to fail. Things could get broken up jobs lost reputations ruined etc ...

Again this is not likely to affect the vintage second market collectors. Parts are already embargoed. As I noted above modern watch manufacture remains irrelevant. If I wanted to I could make a watch from raw materials.

When I worked at Apple, I would take lunch breaks browsing the local surplus stores which were basically across the expressway. Also the costco which had cheap lunches.

Apple was failing and the local subsided cafeteria was meh. It gets forgotten that Apple went through the same situation with wonky marketing than emulated bad Hollywood sequels. At the time Microsoft and the PC clones could do no wrong. I think IBM may still exist. They no longer sell direct to the public though. Which where the Swiss industry may be headed once again.

Surplus stores were packed with the stuff dreams were made from. Of course I still have a bit of it and the emotional attachment to the potential of what it could be.
 
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Much as it breaks my heart, I think Omega/Swatch group has shot itself in the foot and they're in big trouble

Are they, though? It's one year of data... and even if Omega isn't able to keep up the sales they gained during covid, if Longines and Tissot can pick up some sales, I'm not sure Swatch will be that hurt.

Unless I'm mistaken Longines is gaining market share, and according to Swatch part of that report is wrong anyway, so... It's worth debating and I'm sure we all want to see omega succeed, but falling to slot 5 isn't permanently damaging for Omega or Swatch.

In fact, it might be the kick in the pants they need to make some of the changes people are looking for. A 13mm thick SMP couldn't hurt.
 
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Much as it breaks my heart, I think Omega/Swatch group has shot itself in the foot and they're in big trouble.
Not sure I would agree. I think Richemont is in a bigger pickle, which is why (if the rumours are to be believed), is trying to sell off JLC.
 
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Nearly a 7% decline in year over year revenue is not a good thing for Swatch Group. the continued tariff stress for a very important American market won't help with any kind of revenue or market share recovery.

They need to go back to basics... Or this could end up being a distressed business group selling off profitable group segments just to keep Omega floating.
 
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Are they, though? It's one year of data... and even if Omega isn't able to keep up the sales they gained during covid, if Longines and Tissot can pick up some sales, I'm not sure Swatch will be that hurt.

Unless I'm mistaken Longines is gaining market share, and according to Swatch part of that report is wrong anyway, so... It's worth debating and I'm sure we all want to see omega succeed, but falling to slot 5 isn't permanently damaging for Omega or Swatch.

In fact, it might be the kick in the pants they need to make some of the changes people are looking for. A 13mm thick SMP couldn't hurt.
Yes, we all want to see Omega succeed. Even the WatchTubers who have recently given it a kick. It's a watch brand with a long and distinguished history, and it's the brand that many feel is best placed to rival Rolex.
 
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As for the sharpness of the 3861 Speedy....the nixon bracelet does have hot spots when you put it on and as it moves around when you are wearing it on your wrist.....does it cut me...no....does it leave scratch marks....no....but it is not silky smooth like a Rolex........I only have an oyster bracelet to compare to....perhaps those who have models with Jubilee bracelets can chime in if the wearing experience is the same as the 3861 nixon bracelet....

YMMV, but I find they fall short of the 3861 bracelet for both quality and wearability.
 
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Not sure I would agree. I think Richemont is in a bigger pickle, which is why (if the rumours are to be believed), is trying to sell off JLC.
JLC ending up with a better owner would be pretty great, them being Richemont is the part I like the least about them right now. Richemont era Panerai is much the same, new ownership would do wonders for that brand too.

It feels like Cartier is doing most of the heavy lifting in that group.
 
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it's always easy to pick on the guy who is down....having said that, I think the biggest impact why Omega lost ranking is the increase of their prices.....look at the other four above them.....the clientele that they cater to can absorb the higher prices vs Omega's target buyer.....

As for the sharpness of the 3861 Speedy....the nixon bracelet does have hot spots when you put it on and as it moves around when you are wearing it on your wrist.....does it cut me...no....does it leave scratch marks....no....but it is not silky smooth like a Rolex........I only have an oyster bracelet to compare to....perhaps those who have models with Jubilee bracelets can chime in if the wearing experience is the same as the 3861 nixon bracelet....
The 3861 bracelet is in fact sharp. I have one on my Silver Snoopy and I had to hand polish the inside of the links after they scratched the caseback. Upset wasn't the word for it.
 
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Not sure I would agree. I think Richemont is in a bigger pickle, which is why (if the rumours are to be believed), is trying to sell off JLC.
Well the rumor is the current JLC CEO wants to buy it. He was previously the CEO of JLC, got promoted to COO of Richemont, only to be demoted back to CEO of JLC. I think the rumors are for him to save face.
 
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Please elaborate...
I believe that Omega and Rolex have been keen competitors for a very long time.
I made the statement you are refering to based on how Omega responded through their offerings during the Quartz crisis and for a long time afterward.
Rolex basically stuck with what they were already doing throughout and since. They stayed true to the core with one exception.
Omega had nice honest movements which may or may not have been better than Rolex prior to the Quartz crisis.
Understandably Omega went with what looked like the future tech that had become dominant. Enter their Quartz movements with continued usage to this day.
Naturally Seiko were forging ahead with Quartz tech as was just about everybody else and their dog.
Omega still had mechanical movements but they moved away from "in house" and went with a variation of ETA movements. Not that there was anything wrong with that. But i do see it as a logical response to market pressures brought on by the Quartz crisis in order to maintain profitability.
The ETA movement variations continued through to the introduction of their own "in house" Co-axials.
As mentioned above. Rolex continued doing their Rolex thing and eventually dropped any further involvement with their Quartz experimentation.
Now we have Rolex going from strength to strength for all the reasons we can rationalise, including but not exclusive to marketing.
All the while increasing prices at any turn.
Others are increasing prices as well including our Omega but Omega are easily singled out for not being this, or not being that, or not enough of this, or not enough of that. Let alone too much of some other this or that.
Their line up is scattered and has been scattered for decades.
What with Chronographs of some variation in one line and or another.
Mixes of technologies not necessarily of their own origin.
Case styles of varying kinds which outwardly dilute brand identity and potential icon status with the only exception being the humble but mighty Speedy Pro. The one watch line that has barely changed appreciably until a couple of years ago except for a Saphire crystal option of one kind or another. And don't get me started on the milky ring thing. But hey, i am most satisfied with my 1861 Hesalite.
And the MoonSwatch thing that was a sugar hit for the market, but another dilution for the Omega brand as far as i can see.

There's so much to unpack in my mind around poor Omega.
I can barely remember the days when a watchmaker would happily say they think an Omega was a better watch than a Rolex.
Then that changed at some point.
All those old guys are long gone.
Oh to continue with my download of the quartz crisis. One could find a good watchmaker nearly anywhere once. Then during the 80's they stopped being a common trade because it was easier to teach people how to swap batteries, a couple of seals and give the watch a rudimentary pressure test and away you go.
The decline in the trade has continued and now it has become more centralised under the manufacturers roof.
No, i think it has been a very long down hill slide for Omega which started a number of decades ago and for one reason or another like the global economy it has accelerated. IMO.
I'm still going to pick up that White dialed Speedy Pro one day despite the random tinking as well as one of these new styled POs despite the axial movement in the bezel which i have assessed to be a feature of the model which doesn't impact the watch's function.
But like many others i will most likely seek out a good used watch. Which by extension, impacts sales of new units.
Edited:
 
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Maybe it’s the disconnect between the RRP, Grey Market, and the secondary market. The former has seen price hike after price hike ( Omega aren’t alone here ) whilst the latter has seen prices falling. I just picked up a BNIB Seamaster 300m Diver on the bracelet, 2026 model with stickers still in place, for £4250 on eBay.

First post so take it easy on me.😎
 
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Maybe it’s the disconnect between the RRP, Grey Market, and the secondary market. The former has seen price hike after price hike ( Omega aren’t alone here ) whilst the latter has seen prices falling. I just picked up a BNIB Seamaster 300m Diver on the bracelet, 2026 model with stickers still in place, for £4250 on eBay.

First post so take it easy on me.😎
Welcome to OF Mariana.

We expect pictures here: https://omegaforums.net/threads/show-us-your-omega-seamaster.121692/
 
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Maybe it’s the disconnect between the RRP, Grey Market, and the secondary market. The former has seen price hike after price hike ( Omega aren’t alone here ) whilst the latter has seen prices falling. I just picked up a BNIB Seamaster 300m Diver on the bracelet, 2026 model with stickers still in place, for £4250 on eBay.

First post so take it easy on me.😎
You’re not wrong but it’s worth mentioning in the 2000s especially early on there was a massive gap between MSRP and grey/used.

Around that time I remember people getting brand new pieces through a forum authorised dealer on Timezone (before this site existed) and it was like 43% of MSRP on models like the 2254.50 and non-AC Seamaster.

That actually got a fair bit tighter in the Cal 8500 era for a while before diverging again more recently.