Their job is to tax imported goods on their value and any fraud attempt will get their attention as it implies potential loss of tax revenue, part of which serves to pay their salaries. They will not ask your opinion about their methods.
So 'you' here is the proverbial 'who'? The buyer? Or the seller? The OP is the seller, he has a concern that he could have repercussions...so how? Anyways...😗
US probably couldn't care less (and why would underdeclaring the value on an item be considered bank fraud?), the Swiss authorities though will take a different view as they lose customs/VAT income. Don't know what this specific bracelet is worth but customs can be a rightful pain in the neck on importing goods. Used to collect old Tektronix scopes for a while and the rigmaroles you had to endure to pay German customs 15 € were plain ridiculous. They outright refused to take 20€ e.g. and hand me my goods doing (and binning) the paperwork without me. Given that they wouldn't have recognized what I was importing in the first place (so I could have meddled the charges anyway) it was just to keep a few people in a job without them actually making their salary back.
I thought money laundering was when criminals 'washed' their illegally obtained dirty cash through a legitimate company, paid tax on it and ended up with clean, laundered money? That's the opposite of what is being discussed here. What is being discussed is tax evasion.
However, how many of us have bought goods abroad and not declared (and paid) the correct import tax when bringing them back into the country? I have! Financially, that's no different to what the OP's purchaser is asking although some may consider that to be a more calculated form of evasion - actively stating an items true worth to evade tax compared to walking through the 'nothing to declare' channel at the airport!
As said, if the purchaser wants to do that it's their decision but they shouldn't involve the seller in that.
You have a very narrow understanding of laundering. Wiring money to further a criminal enterprise (tax fraud), disguising the amounts, breaking the rules on the federal forms that must be filled out to wire money in the US are all laundering. That makes you a criminal.
"But your Honor? I'm not a criminal."
Nah. You're completely wrong mate. This thread is definately about evading import tax. It's not about turning dirty money into clean money, or laundering as it's known. Every definition that I can find online goes along with what I said.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/money-laundering
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/money-laundering
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/moneylaundering.asp
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering
Can you find me an online definition that backs up your obviously wrong assumption of laundering.
I am trying to determine how the 'import VAT' country (buyers country) could actually determine the value of the goods imported from the sellers end (in this case, the OP is worried about consequences)...and what risk he as the seller could have (as everybody seems to claim, if the seller aids the buyer in this proposed way, he could put himself at risk -> nobody has explained how).
Im surprised by the strong views here. This is hardly a moral dilemma.
If you purchase a used watch in the same country, you'd pay the cost and thats it. Why should this change just because one party is in another country? I am restricting my opinion on purchasing used goods for personal use. We are not talking about setting up businesses or even buying a brand new product.
You don't get to decide what this thread is about. The title in includes
"Receiving multiple international wires"
Are you a US attorney? I am not either , so we are dealing with opinion and cautionary advice not a precise US criminal code definition .
For some reason you have a need to be insulting. Knock it off and change your tone, now. I am not going to get into a pissing match with you.
Because in your country there is presumably a market for the used products, so people operating businesses buying and selling said products, employing people in the process, and generating tax revenue for your government to provide you and your fellow citizens the services that they take for granted. Applying a tax is not just about collecting the tax - that's a very naïve view of it - it's also about protecting domestic markets. That's why the de minimis threshold in Canada is at $20 right now, and why raising it is an item on the US lists of demands for the NAFTA renegotiations that start today (US de minimis is currently at $800). Doing so is expected to have major negative consequences for Canadian retailers who will now have to compete with US on-line retailers who won't have any taxes included on their purchases, where the retailers in Canada will have to charge it.
There would be no taxes paid on a personal transaction depending on where you live and what that transaction is, but that doesn't mean there isn't some businesses that are being protected with these tax laws.
Cheers, Al
What I am trying to suggest, as was the point mentioned by the OP, is that the seller can declare a lower value since he as the owner decides what the value of that pre-owned item should be. This need not be an ethical violation.
Yesterday an international transaction was concluded : I received three watch straps in the post last night from abroad. I will not say which company from, but I will say that a certain #strapnerd who has been lurking in this thread is the reason why I know of them (he almost has the whole collection, so it is safe to assume he received the same treatment several times).
They invoiced them to me officially at an incorrect value. Why? I guess so that I wouldn't have to pay tax, which I didn't. Did I ask them to do this? Absolutely not. Whats my opinion? "Thanks guys! You rock!". Do I feel guilty? No. Should I feel guilty? I don't see why...try buy nice straps in CH (but that is irrelevant). Does that make me an immoral bastard? I don't believe so, but you can judge for yourself. Am I at risk from legal repercussions?????
The moral high-ground : we have a bit of a quandary. In my mind I am in the clear, but technically (with respect to the OP's problem statement) I am less in the clear than the recipient of the OP's bracelet would be as if the authorities were to go snooping in my credit card account and could correlate that particular higher transaction to what came through the post at a lower value, they would see the discrepancy, and could thus hold me accountable for avoiding import tax (regardless that I did not ask for this, I am fairly certain they could not be bothered to go through email correspondence - the facts are the bank transaction and physical import). I strongly doubt that they could/would do anything to the sender of the straps (who is in another country, and, remember, who sent false official documentation).
So, what would you do? And how is this any different TECHNICALLY ("buyer asked seller" morality aside!) from the OP's problem statement apart from the fact that I don't have a transaction to the seller that matches the value they sent (and he would)?
The seller set the value when he sold it to the buyer for a specific amount, and declaring a lower value for customs purposes in an attempt to evade taxes and duties for the buyer is not legal or ethical, no matter what mental gymnastics you want to apply. The very same laws that you say are acceptable do not agree with your conclusions regarding how value is set when an item is imported...it doesn't matter if this is a transaction between two companies, a company and an individual, or two individuals. The same laws apply.
Im definitely not questioning the law.
If i were to fly to a different country for the sole purpose of purchasing that pre-owned watch from the seller and fly back home the same evening, none of these duties apply correct? I am paying the airlines (the taxes involved here are totally different) for their service and I go collect the watch, without any government or custom duties involved...
Again, I am stressing on the exchange between two individuals of a sole item. The declaration of this value needs no mental gymnastics.
Its like when your dentist asks you how often you floss? And you answer everyday
(perhaps I reduced the discussion way too much by this analogy, but this is how immaterial I think declaring values for sending out a pre-owned individual item)
Anyway, like it has been stated numerous times, morals and ethics come down to a personal level and how we choose to abide by them. Speeding is infact against the law and yet that happens and considered "normal".
oh well...
Umm not correct no, duty would apply fully. It all depends on your country of origin but to use the UK as an example, if you walked through upon return from outside the EU without declaring the item you would be smuggling. Duty would be applied at a rate dependant on a value that HMRC would calculate, not the amount you exchanged which is irrelevant. You may get away with it if you aren't stopped or you are and they believed that you had worn the watch on the way out but if you have box and papers in your bag or several watches then you would have some explaining to do and the likely outcome would be a bill for 20% of an inflated HMRC valuation, or seizure of the item. Do it often enough or in big enough quantities then prosecution would result. The fact you aren't doing it for a business is totally irrelevant.
This is all very grey...
Umm not correct no, duty would apply fully. It all depends on your country of origin but to use the UK as an example, if you walked through upon return from outside the EU without declaring the item you would be smuggling. Duty would be applied at a rate dependant on a value that HMRC would calculate, not the amount you exchanged which is irrelevant. You may get away with it if you aren't stopped or you are and they believed that you had worn the watch on the way out but if you have box and papers in your bag or several watches then you would have some explaining to do and the likely outcome would be a bill for 20% of an inflated HMRC valuation, or seizure of the item. Do it often enough or in big enough quantities then prosecution would result. The fact you aren't doing it for a business is totally irrelevant.
If i were to fly to a different country for the sole purpose of purchasing that pre-owned watch from the seller and fly back home the same evening, none of these duties apply correct?
Speeding is infact against the law and yet that happens and considered "normal".
oh well...
