Rare Omega Speedmaster Holy Grail 376.0822 Jet Black Non-Wedge Prototype Dial?

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I doubt there are fake dials for this. Just a bunch of super small runs of dials for service, hence the variety. These where German market right? Not like the odds of being serviced on schedule is slightly higher in that population vs other markets...
 
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The thing that's odd is that there is only one.
 
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The Grail, as we know, is exceedingly rare to begin with. If it can be established that my dial has never been refinished, which I believe my photos indicate, this lends credence to the prototype dial theory.

The thing that's odd is that there is only one.
 
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The Grail, as we know, is exceedingly rare to begin with. If it can be established that my dial has never been refinished, which I believe my photos indicate, this lends credence to the prototype dial theory.
And it will remain a theory, namely your theory. You are entitled to your own opinion and I hope you enjoy the dial, but unless the kind folks at the Omega Museum agree with you it doesn't appear that anyone on this forum agrees with your theory.
 
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This isn't a democracy. The technical subject matter being discussed here may even be above those idiots at Bienne.

And it will remain a theory, namely your theory. You are entitled to your own opinion and I hope you enjoy the dial, but unless the kind folks at the Omega Museum agree with you it doesn't appear that anyone on this forum agrees with your theory.
 
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This isn't a democracy. The technical subject matter being discussed here may even be above those idiots at Bienne.
Cool
 
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Just like @TsoloT indicated, the OP dial is a redial, poorly refinished one at that.

Uneven paint layer making the dial surface not flat (second picture below has the impression that the dial is bent). Poor print quality, wrong fonts, no serif on these words OMEGA, Speedmaster, AUTOMATIC and SWISS MADE. And Swiss Made specifically, very very poor quality with smear all over, can never pass for a quality original Swiss dial.

Hell, this forum loves a good fight with prototypes! 😝

This is just a spare dial, OP can survive to fight another day. 😉

Edited:
 
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This isn't a democracy. The technical subject matter being discussed here may even be above those idiots at Bienne.

aha... 🤨

"The higher they fly, the harder they fall." - George Ade
 
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For such stupid comments guy should be banned from museum support.

I think we all can be happy to have such a supportive team at omega that cares about our watches an is always open to discussion and investigations.
 
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This isn't a democracy. The technical subject matter being discussed here may even be above those idiots at Bienne.

You’re right, it’s not... so people can very much disagree with your opinions, because that’s what they are, nothing more, nothing less.

As to your comment about the museum/heritage team in Bienne, you’re way out of line.
 
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Would like to know why my fellow forum member thinks the guys at Bienne are ‘stupid’
I have the pleasure of talking to These guys on a regular basis and they are incredibly knowledgeable given the vast amount of information the huge number of models and the variations therein

I am not pleading their case Unfortunate at Omega the records Are not necessarily kept in the best order and files as recent as the late 1980s are often missing
And it makes even more problematical is that when Watches went to the distributors they themselves may have made some amendments variations and similarly when onward to the retailers

However In my humble opinion it is very unlikely that anybody went to the trouble of making very very small number Dial prints to satisfy what is effectively a service market
 
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Just like @TsoloT indicated, the OP dial is a redial, poorly refinished one at that.

Uneven paint layer making the dial surface not flat (second picture below has the impression that the dial is bent). Poor print quality, wrong fonts, no serif on these words OMEGA, Speedmaster, AUTOMATIC and SWISS MADE. And Swiss Made specifically, very very poor quality with smear all over, can never pass for a quality original Swiss dial.

Hell, this forum loves a good fight with prototypes! 😝

This is just a spare dial, OP can survive to fight another day. 😉

I must agree with my sharp eyed forum member and the merger of the 1 and 2 the 24-hour position with the low-density of the prints
Is clearly an example of the low quality referred to

I am also deeply suspicious as to the colour of the lume ......was this constructed at the time tritium was still around Because as far as I know nobody could have accessed tritium for the last 20 years or more And this lume is remarkably uniform in colour and texture And the usual lume printing from Singers where this dial supposed to come from is usually very very poor for this particular model Dial
 
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Would like to know why my fellow forum member thinks the guys at Bienne are ‘stupid’
I have the pleasure of talking to These guys on a regular basis and they are incredibly knowledgeable given the vast amount of information the huge number of models and the variations therein

I am not pleading their case Unfortunate at Omega the records Are not necessarily kept in the best order and files as recent as the late 1980s are often missing
And it makes even more problematical is that when Watches went to the distributors they themselves may have made some amendments variations and similarly when onward to the retailers

However In my humble opinion it is very unlikely that anybody went to the trouble of making very very small number Dial prints to satisfy what is effectively a service market
Your fellow forum member believes that because, it appears, they don't agree with him. I suspect you are now added to his list.
 
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So, in your opinion, someone went to great lengths to create a fake dial of an extremely niche model with tritium lume. This doesn't seem likely...

I must agree with my sharp eyed forum member and the merger of the 1 and 2 the 24-hour position with the low-density of the prints
Is clearly an example of the low quality referred to

I am also deeply suspicious as to the colour of the lume ......was this constructed at the time tritium was still around Because as far as I know nobody could have accessed tritium for the last 20 years or more And this lume is remarkably uniform in colour and texture And the usual lume printing from Singers where this dial supposed to come from is usually very very poor for this particular model Dial
 
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Not really great lengths...it’s a Very valuable watch much rarer than any speed Master including the 2915

This watch Dial was notoriously difficult to replicate As nothing was like it with the exception of the mark 4.5 and that’s why the service dials from Bienne were so completely wrong

I would like to see whether your dial is luminous Or whether it is a paint over iluminova ...I Have seen a number of these kinds of attempts and the reason that this dial is a copied Is because the luse applications on it were so poor

Singa over applied the loom in the top right quadrant and in the bottom left quadrant as well as the 3 o’clock position and if you examine 20 original dials you will find problems with the lume on at least 6 to 8 which is a very high proportion
And that clearly diminished the values of the watch and so people have been looking for solutions to this problem for some considerable time

New tiles have been created and I have sent the forum a photograph of the front faced and the back face of the dials for reference

And old boy has also kindly lent his versions

What I would respectfully suggest you do is to write to singers the manufacturers asked them to confirm whether this was theirs as a prototype or as a replacement and if they validate the provenance then you have something of considerable interest
 
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Please excuse the spelling on the previous post it should say Singer as the manufacturer
 
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Whilst you are at it can you and the forum look at the following and tell me which is correct for the grail as an end link for the 1450 bracelet

And also whether the 1450 was the only bracelets
 
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So, in your opinion, someone went to great lengths to create a fake dial of an extremely niche model with tritium lume. This doesn't seem likely...

I think "redial" would be the term most widely used... unless the whole thing including the plate was created.
 
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If you've been paying attention to this thread, you'll see that the plate is indeed completely different than the normal factory grail dial. Pay close attention to this detail, as well as the black pebble (non-matte) finish.

I think "redial" would be the term most widely used... unless the whole thing including the plate was created.