Rare Omega Speedmaster Holy Grail 376.0822 Jet Black Non-Wedge Prototype Dial?

Locked
Posts
17,577
Likes
26,642
As another user has already mentioned, look at the "2" characters. They are clearly quite different. In addition, the texture and color of this dial is much darker than the usual matte coloration we're used to seeing on this reference.
So wierd the 2's look just like every other example...
 
Posts
3,082
Likes
3,570
So wierd the 2's look just like every other example...
the 2's on omegarolex's dial look completely different than
(look at the space between the bottom horizontal line of the 2
and the vertical part of the 2. It looks like a wedge on normal Grail dial,
on Op's it's a flat space)
what you see on the Grail dials.
I just spent half hour looking through
Google images and I can't find even one
that looks like the OP's 2's.
 
Posts
381
Likes
756
the 2's on omegarolex's dial look completely different than
(look at the space between the bottom horizontal line of the 2
and the vertical part of the 2. It looks like a wedge on normal Grail dial,
on Op's it's a flat space)
what you see on the Grail dials.
I just spent half hour looking through
Google images and I can't find even one
that looks like the OP's 2's.

That's why I provided very detailed pics of my dial. Take a careful look at the color and texture, as well. It's very different from "normal" grail dials. The back of the dial is faintly signed Singer.
 
Posts
461
Likes
353
Just picked up this thread sorry for my dilatory response ...I may be able to shed some light on this grail concentric circle dilemma
There are 2 Dial manufactures

The first made by Singers is the original and concentric circle version D1
The second stamped SJ is the best service replacement dial D2 which is identical to D1 save and except IT DOES NOT HAVE CONCENTRIC CIRCLES
so Mr omegarolex you have 4 service dials with no circles and are correct ,given the watches you own ,but Foo2rama is referencing the original

376.0822 and as such he is correct also ,unfortunately neither of you were fully informed of the variations
 
Posts
27,525
Likes
70,036
Looking on the Omega Extranet, it seems that the available replacement dials (with the parts number as shown above) don't have concentric rings....
 
Posts
461
Likes
353
That’s correct and I think that’s why mr Omega Rolex got the contrary answer as I suspect his watches have been service with D2 dials
It’s the black swan reason
Thanks for looking it up
 
Posts
3,082
Likes
3,570
So unless I missed something here;
there seems to be 3 dial variations then.

1. Original factory Grail dials that have Concentric circles in the 3 subdials
and the "2's" that have a wedge in the bottom space.

2. The OP's posted dial pictures that have Concentric circles in the subdials
and the "2's" that have a Flat space in the bottom space.(see oddboy photo compare)

3. The OP's "other" 4 Grail examples with NO concentric circles in the sub dials,
(which he hasn't posted pictures of) (but Archer says they are shown on extranet)
(and TsoloT says is a service dial and has no Concentric circles in the subdials)

???
 
Posts
461
Likes
353
Almost correct ....there are 4 dials! The fourth is the disastrous missing 10 dial !
This is best exemplified by looking at the journey through time page 621 top left of the page


This is a service dial which was basically a mark 4.5 repurposed it’s horrendous
There is no 10 at the 10 minute position and the day date white margin is incomplete at the 3 o’clock position plus lume loss and there is almost always gapping between the minute track on the dial and that attached to the crystal
I am doing a small research booklet as a the collectors guide to this model and it will be free on the net

This is one of the most misguided mischaracterised and pourly reasearched iteration in the entire line up of
speedmasters in my humble opinion and based on extensive research the MWO ,THE MASTER OF OMEGA , AND THE JTT ALL GOT THE WATCH

Even Fratello who used the Grail as a mast head a few years ago had a none original watch with wrong hands
 
Posts
381
Likes
756
I don't own any nasty service dials. I only own originals.

Just picked up this thread sorry for my dilatory response ...I may be able to shed some light on this grail concentric circle dilemma
There are 2 Dial manufactures

The first made by Singers is the original and concentric circle version D1
The second stamped SJ is the best service replacement dial D2 which is identical to D1 save and except IT DOES NOT HAVE CONCENTRIC CIRCLES
so Mr omegarolex you have 4 service dials with no circles and are correct ,given the watches you own ,but Foo2rama is referencing the original

376.0822 and as such he is correct also ,unfortunately neither of you were fully informed of the variations
 
Posts
3,082
Likes
3,570
Almost correct ....there are 4 dials! The fourth is the disastrous missing 10 dial !
This is best exemplified by looking at the journey through time page 621 top left of the page


This is a service dial which was basically a mark 4.5 repurposed it’s horrendous
There is no 10 at the 10 minute position and the day date white margin is incomplete at the 3 o’clock position plus lume loss and there is almost always gapping between the minute track on the dial and that attached to the crystal
I am doing a small research booklet as a the collectors guide to this model and it will be free on the net

This is one of the most misguided mischaracterised and pourly reasearched iteration in the entire line up of
speedmasters in my humble opinion and based on extensive research the MWO ,THE MASTER OF OMEGA , AND THE JTT ALL GOT THE WATCH

Even Fratello who used the Grail as a mast head a few years ago had a none original watch with wrong hands

Ok, well in your 1st post you referred to 2 "dial manufactures".
And didn't address the OP's dial he posted for observation.

So, for clarity's sake here, you're saying there is only 1 original dial.
It has concentric circles, and wedge shape in the 2.

And you're saying that there were 2 service dials, one with rings, one without?

And a fourth dial, The Mk.4.5 dial, was also used in service, which everyone knows about because it looks so bad.

This thread could also use a picture set of the dial with NO concentric
circles in the subdials for posterity.
 
Posts
9,597
Likes
15,154
Wasn't this guy (the OP) banned for repeated trolling? Maybe I am thinking of someone else but the name and manner are familiar.
 
Posts
9,217
Likes
24,049

Unfortunately not a great pic.. maybe @Archer could post a pic of what's on the extranet.

Edit:. That's a modern service dial from Omega
 
Posts
3,082
Likes
3,570

Unfortunately not a great pic.. maybe @Archer could post a pic of what's on the extranet.

Edit:. That's a modern service dial from Omega
Can you post a link for this?
This just adds more questions.
This one has the wedge but can't
tell if the circles(or lume) are there.
Edited:
 
Posts
9,217
Likes
24,049
I don't have a link. That image is from the omega repair center in Toronto. They sent it to me by email. They offered to replace my original dial with one that glowed.
 
Posts
461
Likes
353
Ok well ,the one that odd boy has very kindly posted is a late omega service/replacement dial which has light white thin lume wedge 2 and No concentric circle [if it’s the conventional modern version made by SJSwiss nl] and is the second of my photos
The second service /replacement dial is the one exhibited on the tea towel by Omega Rolex which has concentric but no wedge 2


the original has concentrics and a wedge 2 and a heavy over lume Carmel colour and is is made by singers and is the first of my photos

It’s very difficult on a low resolution photo to distinguish the modern replacement but it’s crisp thin low load white lume is the clue
On high resolution you see no circles on the sub dials

The feet are 4 mm and the diameter of the feet are 0.8 mm they are thus not interchangeable with other speedy calibers also the dial is marginally smaller in diameter

We are of course ignoring some redial that I have seen but they are mostly Type D1 with lume corrections

One final vital point ...all the service dials I have seen are coal Black Matt with crisp white writing .....originals are lighter and gray ...very noticable when posted side by side

Hence my earlier observation on another forum thread of the rareness of total original models and I believe Oddboy has an excellent reference prototype very authentic and externally looking totally correct which subject to his permission should be used as a comparative
 
Posts
381
Likes
756
I have handled numerous service dials missing the 10. The color and finish of these service dials is completely different from mine. My dial is completely black, not "coal" nor "matte."

Ok well ,the one that odd boy has very kindly posted is a late omega service/replacement dial which has light white thin lume wedge 2 and No concentric circle [if it’s the conventional modern version made by SJSwiss nl] and is the second of my photos
The second service /replacement dial is the one exhibited on the tea towel by Omega Rolex which has concentric but no wedge 2


the original has concentrics and a wedge 2 and a heavy over lume Carmel colour and is is made by singers and is the first of my photos

It’s very difficult on a low resolution photo to distinguish the modern replacement but it’s crisp thin low load white lume is the clue
On high resolution you see no circles on the sub dials

The feet are 4 mm and the diameter of the feet are 0.8 mm they are thus not interchangeable with other speedy calibers also the dial is marginally smaller in diameter

We are of course ignoring some redial that I have seen but they are mostly Type D1 with lume corrections

One final vital point ...all the service dials I have seen are coal Black Matt with crisp white writing .....originals are lighter and gray ...very noticable when posted side by side

Hence my earlier observation on another forum thread of the rareness of total original models and I believe Oddboy has an excellent reference prototype very authentic and externally looking totally correct which subject to his permission should be used as a comparative
 
Posts
9,217
Likes
24,049
I think @TsoloT is saying that the original dials are a little grey, not deep black.

Also, if I'm following along here, the "flat 2" is considered a service dial as well.

One final vital point ...all the service dials I have seen are coal Black Matt with crisp white writing .....originals are lighter and gray ...very noticable when posted side by side

@OmegaRolex, maybe posting some good pics of your four would help resolve this confusion.
 
Posts
4,113
Likes
16,304
The original has concentrics and a wedge 2 and a heavy over lume Carmel colour and is made by Singer

So according to the description above, this one could be the correct one, or did I miss something?