Radium risk, risk assessment help for museums

Omegafanman · Mar 31, 2023

A lot of wonderful museums in the UK, often run by volunteers are struggling. If they have watches increasingly I am seeing smaller amateur museums having to remove them from display or leave cabinets permanently locked so they can never be touched or cleaned again….. the reason is radium.

Does anyone have or could help create a generic modern risk assessment to cover watches, clocks and instruments? I would like to give curators something which they can challenge the status quo with so we can get things on an even keep again. Otherwise as the next generation takes over it will all end up buried in a lead box.

.

Ron_W · Mar 31, 2023

The Radium will decay anyway over time right ?, and ruin/burn the dial in the proces, so museums should do what they are supposed to do and preserve these watches in the best possible and safest way.
Why not clean/remove the Radium from all these dials by a specialist company, or have them all refitted with spare/sevice dials ? For me the "originality" argument loses to the health safety issue.

Omegafanman · Mar 31, 2023

Ron_W
The Radium will decay anyway over time right ?, and ruin/burn the dial in the proces, so museums should do what they are supposed to do and preserve these watches in the best possible and safest way.
Why not clean/remove the Radium from all these dials by a specialist company, or have them all refitted with spare/sevice dials ? For me the "originality" argument loses to the health safety issue.

These are the little guys / mostly volunteer and donation run so they don’t have money for that, or to meet and interpret new regulations. A couple have already shut. Would be good to have a sensible risk assessment for radium items so they don’t get thrown overboard unnecessarily.

Ron_W · Mar 31, 2023

I see, plenty of EU regulations on radium/radioactive materials but more focussed on industrial use i believe, and above my paygrade .
EU general risk assessment methodology_for publication2 (1).pdf

Or
Health and Safety: Ionising Radiation (hse.gov.uk)

Here is a first assessment from 2012 on watches ;
Radium dial watches, a potentially hazardous legacy? - PubMed (nih.gov)

Tony C. · Mar 31, 2023

I'm not sure that the topic is really so complex. There are basically two ways that radium can pose health risks to people, through inhalation or ingestion of particles, and through inhalation of associated Radon gas.

The latter can easily be mitigated with proper ventilation. So, in a museum setting, providing the clocks and/or watches being stored or displayed are in well-ventilated rooms, they should pose no danger.

With regard to the potential inhalation or ingestion of particles, that risk to visitors would exist only if the watches or clocks were not well sealed, and could be mitigated by proper maintenance. When someone is directly working on them, risks can be mitigated by careful procedures, such as the use of masks, eye protection, and properly directed fans, etc.

Here are some useful sources:

David Boettcher, who has done fantastic work on other vintage watch-related topics, produced a thoughtful post here:

http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/luminous.php

I posted this on a related thread some time ago:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/radium-geiger-counter-measurements.82149/#post-1154129

This is a video entitled How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Radium Dials, by Kathleen McGivney

McGivney was at the time the COO of RedBar Group, and Director of Operations, Horological Society of New York.

Pastorbottle · Mar 31, 2023

Given that the radium is by and large contained within the watch case, the very people who are worried the most are more than likely to get more radiation exposure from their mobile phone.
Yes I know the 2 types of radiation are different and will have different effects but my point is one (radium..the nastier of the 2) is a tiny amount, that is contained and with proper handling should stay that way and the other is forever jammed in the user’s ear.

Omegafanman · Mar 31, 2023

Thanks all for the feedback. Some really interesting and useful documents. Sadly I might be losing ground as some of the museums I have in mind have poor ventilation, limited heating and I suspect have not considered the Radon issue much.
It would be interesting to see an official risk assessment format from a museum or collection.
It looks like from the official 2012 assessment they want ALARA ‘’as low as reasonably achievable”. ALARA means avoiding exposure to radiation that does not have a direct benefit to you, even if the dose is small…. That still consigns them to the basement cupboard with a beware of the leopard sign sadly, I will see if the Redbar vid helps,,,,,,

BlackTalon · Mar 31, 2023

Omegafanman
Thanks all for the feedback. Some really interesting and useful documents. Sadly I might be losing ground as some of the museums I have in mind have poor ventilation, limited heating

Very, very poor operating/ environmental conditions for a museum...

Omegafanman · Mar 31, 2023

BlackTalon
Very, very poor operating/ environmental conditions for a museum...

As explained these are small, amateur operations, with low footfall and reliant on donations. Covid and the energy cost crisis are not the best operating conditions for them all full stop.

Wryfox · Mar 31, 2023

Here's a start...its not UK but might be good source of background info.

https://www.epa.gov/radtown/radioactivity-antiques

Bottom line, the risk is similar to the overreaction to mercury, asbestos, and lead. The real risk is industrial, occupational exposure over many years. Temporary, transient exposure is essentially insignificant. Though I appreciate the challenge with proving this in our 'safety at all costs' society.

PS: I drank from the garden hose as a kid so my advice may be suspect....

Vitezi · Mar 31, 2023

Omegafanman
I would like to give curators something which they can challenge the status quo with so we can get things on an even keep again.

This paper, in the Journal of Conservation and Museum Studies, might be useful as it addresses radium objects:
"Managing Small Radioactive Collections in the UK: Experiences from the Polar Museum, Cambridge"

ABSTRACT Many collections in the UK include some radioactive objects, which must be managed in accordance with the Environmental Permitting Regulations and the Ionising Radiation Regulations. These laws are complex and cover a wide range of industries so it can be difficult to work out how they apply to museums in practice. Museums in the UK also have to consider how to integrate their legal obligations for working with radiation with accepted museum ethical guidelines, SPECTRUM 5.0 and the Accreditation Standard. This paper aims to illustrate how radioactive objects can be practically managed in a small museum context through examples from the Polar Museum in Cambridge, where the Radiation Protection team and the conservator have worked closely since 2009 to develop robust procedures. It covers many collections based activities including display, storage and conservation, and discusses these in the context of recent updates to UK law. A risk assessment template for working with radioactive collections is included as an Appendix.

https://jcms-journal.com/articles/10.5334/jcms.166

sheepdoll · Mar 31, 2023

There are a lot of threads on Radium here. @Tony C. did a nice summery.

I can speak from personal experience and choice. Exposure is a statistical process. Results are not easy to replicate. So what may work for one museum collector may not work for another.

What is best is to understand common sense. We have 100s of years of experience dealing with this. Most of the damage has been through ignorance. Or the manipulation of the facts for personal agendas.

The stones in the walls may be more radioactive than the items on display.

I would be more worried about suppression of obfuscation of information. Perhaps the question to ask is what is to be gained by what the other party sees as facts . And what can be considered excitement and emotion from learning that things may not be what they seem.

Ironically lead is a factor in most glass produced before someone decided to control others with the FUD over lead exposure. So A lead box is more mythos. Some of this comes to oversimplification. The cure may become worse than the treatment.

As for the poor ventilation one is just as likely to contact legionaries disease or any other particle borne illness. Libraries are acually one of the most unhealthy places one can visit. What is more likely to transmit germs? The bathroom doorknob. Or a popular book or magazine in the library.

Also note we can not return to a back to nature existence, because open hearth fires create soot and cause asthma. We also know that soot contains carbon byproducts such as nanotubes and bukyballs. Which can also cause cellular damaged when breathed as these structures exist at the atomic level.

river rat · Mar 31, 2023

Some of us might have more vintage watches and clocks with radium than a museum and we are still here walking around in no ill health. As long as they don't remove the crystals or open the watch up everything seems find. I think this is over reaction. Plus, there in a glass cabinet in most cases. should be safe.

Dan S · Mar 31, 2023

I think the issue is mostly related to laws and regulations. Since it is both a public environment and a workplace, the museum clearly is required to meet certain standards that we're not required to meet in our homes. The article that @Vitezi posted goes into some detail about these requirements. As a result, it probably won't be too helpful to museum managers to detail our personal opinions about radium safety or even to develop a risk assessment protocol that we think is sufficient. A museum is required to meet legal requirements.

So while I agree that radium watches will generally be safe if they remain sealed and placed in the center of a display in a room with good ventilation, this may not be sufficient to meet regulatory requirements. In particular, there are likely to be reporting and validation requirements, safety training, testing, etc.

Pastorbottle · Mar 31, 2023

Does you watch maker, don a hazmat suit every time he walks into his workshop, and go through decontamination on the way out?
Due to the fact that it’s heavy there’s probably more radon gas in many tunnels, underground mines, caves or old basements and underground car parks, than in a watch.
This radon gas leaches out of the bed rock, and is present in many minerals and clays.
That fancy granite bench top that you had installed in your kitchen at great expense, could emit more radon gas than an old watch with its dial safely encased within the watch case.

Back in the bad old days the dial painters would lick the tips of their brushes to form a fine point, this is how they ingested the radium salts that gave them cancer, once this practice was stopped, then there seemed to be few health problems to do with radium as used in watches.

So as long as you don’t give the bloody watch to your infant to suck on, then all things considered there are worse things than an old watch.

Archer · Mar 31, 2023

Pastorbottle
Does you watch maker, don a hazmat suit every time he walks into his workshop, and go through decontamination on the way out?

No, but I certainly take precautions when working on watches with radium. What is often lost in these discussions, in particular with comparisons to other risks, is that risk is cumulative.

So although there are certainly bigger risks than radium exposure from an old watch, it’s still not something I take lightly.

TimeODanaos · Mar 31, 2023

Omegafanman
Does anyone have or could help create a generic modern risk assessment to cover watches, clocks and instruments? I would like to give curators something

I see what you're asking - it's not our personal opinions or practices that count here, or even those of the curators, so... I did a bit of google-fu, and although I haven't read it yet, I wonder whether this museum journal article might hit the spot for you, or at least provide some leads. I appreciate it's probably talking about "small" and mini-museums rather than micro- and nano-exhibitions, but hey it's a start.

Dan S · Mar 31, 2023

TimeODanaos
I see what you're asking - it's not our personal opinions or practices that count here, or even those of the curators, so... I did a bit of google-fu, and although I haven't read it yet, I wonder whether this museum journal article might hit the spot for you, or at least provide some leads. I appreciate it's probably talking about "small" and mini-museums rather than micro- and nano-exhibitions, but hey it's a start.

I think that is the same article that @Vitezi linked above. It certainly seems directly relevant.

redpcar · Mar 31, 2023

After I bought my Geiger Counter, I got rid of my old desk 🙁

Omegafanman · Apr 1, 2023

Thanks again for all the help. It is about finding a technically correct and safe path which is easily documented to discharge a duty of care. When something needs thought and consideration and time and money is in short supply the path of least resort is often a simple no/ lock it away. The fear of vexatious litigation and long term liability risks adds to that. I think all of the above answers are very helpful and I need to check out the museum journal which has a RA template link. Has anyone told eBay about Radium I wonder ;0)
Thanks again - all good stuff above.

Radium risk, risk assessment help for museums

Omegafanman

Ron_W

Omegafanman

Ron_W

Tony C.

Pastorbottle

Omegafanman

BlackTalon

Omegafanman

Wryfox

Vitezi

sheepdoll

river rat

Dan S

Pastorbottle

Archer

TimeODanaos

Dan S

redpcar

Omegafanman

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