Radium dials and hands - remove, restore and relume? Advice welcomed

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If you are concerned about radon, you should buy a radon detector, they are inexpensive. And depending on where you live, you may have a high risk of naturally occurring radon in your living space, so testing is a good idea even in the absence of vintage watches. I have a radon detector, and have used it to test radon levels in various parts of my house, as well as in the drawers and boxes where I store my watches. I've published the results elsewhere.
 
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Definitely interesting to see your sievert readings. I found this article that outlines similar concerns about radium. Since you have real-world data to back up your concerns, just move the watch on. No style should be worth the concern or real risk of cancer.

Good find. Trying to convert from micro Sieverts to Bequerels is definitely beyond me (I’m not even sure it’s possible), but in any event that article and my readings serve as a timely reminder for us to be suitably wary of our radium watches, and maybe wear them sparingly. If I were 75, would it worry me? Not at all. But would I give it to my son? Absolutely not.
 
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If you are concerned about radon, you should buy a radon detector, they are inexpensive. And depending on where you live, you may have a high risk of naturally occurring radon in your living space, so testing is a good idea even in the absence of vintage watches. I have a radon detector, and have used it to test radon levels in various parts of my house, as well as in the drawers and boxes where I store my watches. I've published the results elsewhere.

The dosimeter I have (I called it a Geiger counter) covers that off I think. We don’t live near lots of granite, so I think my watch is the most radioactive thing around here
 
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But again, let’s not forget about the possible benefits:

Seriously, I am mindful of the dangers associated with the buildup of radon gas from a collection of radium dialed watches stored in a confined space. The same goes for the inhalation of airborne particles of disintegrated radium lume. Hint: leave the servicing of these watches to a professional. Both of these risks are something that can be anticipated and planned for. I am much less concerned with radioactive exposure associated with the judicious wearing of radium dialed watches in rotation with other watches.
You almost always make me laugh out loud. The risks of these watches is actual, but they can be mitigated with care, as you advise.
 
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The value of a watch you can't wear and stored in a plastic bag is 0... If you like it, restore it, wear it, enjoy it.
 
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The dosimeter I have (I called it a Geiger counter) covers that off I think.
Not really, radon detectors are quite specific because the risks of radon are different from that of ambient radiation or cosmic rays. You inhale the gas into your lungs. So you should have both.
 
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Thank you. This is interesting, and it’s absolutely the radon issue that I was more concerned about. Lots of people tend to focus only on the alpha particles and how you would need to breath in or ingest the radium dust itself to cause an issue, when it’s actually much more complicated than that. As I mentioned I literally tested this on a shelf with a Geiger counter a while ago, and I’ve just rerun some tests. Now I remember why I was concerned…

I attach the photos, but as you can see, immediately in front of the dial (where you are unlikely to be, unless you fall asleep with your watch on?), it goes off the scale and records something over 9.99 micro Sieverts per hour. Measured from behind the watch case (ie your wrist), the dose is 2.18 micro Sieverts per hour. Finally, six inches in front of the face, it’s 1.55 micro Sieverts per hour.

As can be seen from the final image “How much is dangerous” which came with the Geiger counter, it states that 1.25 micro Sieverts per hour gives you a real risk of cancer if exposed for a year. That’s much below what your wrist would experience, and who knows how long you’d have to be near the face for it to be a concern.

Anyway, hopefully someone will find this helpful, and from real-world data.
And just to provide an interesting comparison, exposure while flying at commercial altitude (35k) is approximately 3 micro Sieverts per hour). So its reasonable to think about wearing that watch for a few hours as equivalent to time on an airplane based on your readings. Obv not accounting for radon exposure, but that should be minimal if you don't keep it in an enclosed space.
 
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And just to provide an interesting comparison, exposure while flying at commercial altitude (35k) is approximately 3 micro Sieverts per hour). So it’s reasonable to think about wearing that watch for a few hours as equivalent to time on an airplane based on your readings. Obv not accounting for radon exposure, but that should be minimal if you don't keep it in an enclosed space.

Great point. And of course depending on how much you wore the watch etc, but bearing in mind I was wearing it all day, and putting it on my bedside table at night, ignoring the radon and night exposure, that’s a solid 15 hours a day easily. So some quick maths means that it’s on my wrist for 105 hours per week, and so 5,460 hours per year. Pilots (in the UK) are allowed a maximum of 1000 hours flying time in any 12 consecutive months( https://www.caa.co.uk/newsroom/blogs/regulating-pilot-hours-and-combatting-fatigue/)). The risk of radiation exposure to pilots and crew is well documented, and so that’s another real world example of why I am right to be concerned about wearing my watch full time again any time soon!
 
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Great point. And of course depending on how much you wore the watch etc, but bearing in mind I was wearing it all day, and putting it on my bedside table at night, ignoring the radon and night exposure, that’s a solid 15 hours a day easily. So some quick maths means that it’s on my wrist for 105 hours per week, and so 5,460 hours per year. Pilots (in the UK) are allowed a maximum of 1000 hours flying time in any 12 consecutive months( https://www.caa.co.uk/newsroom/blogs/regulating-pilot-hours-and-combatting-fatigue/)). The risk of radiation exposure to pilots and crew is well documented, and so that’s another real world example of why I am right to be concerned about wearing my watch full time again any time soon!

There are differences between flying (where the radiation is exposed to your whole body) and an equivalent dose being focused (on a wrist).

Can anyone explain why the readings were so high? Unless there are holes in the case, alpha particles should not be causing those numbers.
 
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There are differences between flying (where the radiation is exposed to your whole body) and an equivalent dose being focused (on a wrist).

Can anyone explain why the readings were so high? Unless there are holes in the case, alpha particles should not be causing those numbers.

Well, keep in mind that when radium emits an α particle, it stops being radium and becomes radon. It's quite possible that radon gas could be escaping from the case, even if it was fairly well closed. If so, you would be able to measure alpha particles (and radioactivity in general) outside of the case with some consistency because radon has such a short half life.

Just a possibility. I had a bit more time to think this through since my last response here and this would make sense to me, but of course I can't guarantee it is what has happened/is happening.
 
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Well, keep in mind that when radium emits an α particle, it stops being radium and becomes radon. It's quite possible that radon gas could be escaping from the case, even if it was fairly well closed. If so, you would be able to measure alpha particles (and radioactivity in general) outside of the case with some consistency because radon has such a short half life.

Just a possibility. I had a bit more time to think this through since my last response here and this would make sense to me, but of course I can't guarantee it is what has happened/is happening.

I thought that sensor was not effective for radon gas?
 
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I thought that sensor was not effective for radon gas?

But radon is an alpha emitter and the results of radon decay are not stable either, and many of them have very, very short half lives.

I honestly wasn't sure of the entire chain so I pulled this table from the internet:



If radon gas was able to get out of the case via gas exchange, you would certainly have multiple alpha and beta emitters within days before it hit lead 210. More emmiters after as well.
 
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Not sure if this has been shared in the past, but this is a talk by Kathleen McGivney from the Horological Society of New York about radium dialed watches. I found it to be alright though radon and loose radium paint isn't really covered.

 
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If you are going to work on the watch yourself, without having he right conditions to carry out the task then get rid of it especially when running risks of radium dust falling in your carpets or where there is a high traffic of other people around especially young children.

If you are going to wear it as a rotation watch, check that the crystal is in good condition, without any cracks etc and that it is seated properly around the rehaut of the watch case. Also make sure that the back seal and crown seal are in good condition to stop any micro dust of radium falling out for for peace of mind.

When outside you can pull the crown out allowing any trapped radon gas to escape. I do not see any problems as I would be more worried about the radiation from our mobile phones in a confined room especially when 4 G will move to a higher G

Consider when all these radium watches were put away when new in jewellers safes confined in an area where other staff and intruders could not access easily ( and therefore without circulation for radon gas to escape), This was common practise in these places and surely most of the workers did not all come down with radiation poisoning from radon build up, otherwise it would be evident that something dangerous was happening.

Consider also the fact that many people would have at least one radium heirloom watch in their bedrooms stored away with the rest of their jewellery in some locked closet for safe keeping.! Radon build up in the bedroom? This would have been common pracitise for heirloom pieces. I had a watch with dots on every quarter of the dial and lume in the hands which I later found out was radium. It had been sitting in my bedroom wardrobe for some 20 years and I have not become sick from it or any Radon gas building up in my room.

It all comes to personal preference and if it is to make you sick from worrying over the sickness from the radium, sell it off to someone that appreciates it for what it is without this fear and buy one without lume.!
 
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It all comes to personal preference and if it is to make you sick from worrying over the sickness from the radium, sell it off to someone that appreciates it for what it is without this fear and buy one without lume.!
This is good advice. You’ll find most watch collectors aren’t worried about it, which is great, but some are (myself included). The good news is there are lots of radium and non-radium watches out there to choose from. Here’s my non-luminous collection for inspiration: https://www.instagram.com/phils.vtg.watches/
 
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While having radium watch dials does not really concern me that much, these would.
 
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While having radium watch dials does not really concern me that much, these would.

Like the way they endorse "Perfectly harmless"!!!!!! Should we believe it?? The same was said about Thalidomide, asbestos dust, and something else that was deemed to be safe globally just over 2 years ago!!! History repeats itself!!!, very much like the same actors on stage playing a different character in the same crazy play!!!
BTW which pharmacy can I place my order from for those suppositories?
 
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Got inspired to check in my radium watch. Spoke with our chem/radiology SME today. More to follow this week