Poor Speedmaster slept in the bottom of the drawer for 15 years

maxbelg · Nov 10, 2017

blubarb
Well let me be contrary for a moment. I don't think anything has been established at all. I will withhold judgement until we see the inside case back reference number, see the movement and know the movement number. I agree that there are indications it might be a 321 based on the tick count, but you are assuming that the chronograph mechanism is correctly adjusted. On a poorly adjusted Chrono the ticks will not always be even or regular. Just repeating what I think a few watchmakers who know 321/861 movements I suspect would tell you. I mean I am far happier seeing the evidence with my own eyes. Don't fully disregard that method but it assumes much at this stage, I suspect.

Sure, let's wait and see, however I don't think even a badly running watch can develop a beat rate of 18000 when it's supposed to be 21600. Another way I test is of course with the microphone of my earphones of my iPhone with an App like Timegrapher. The App can detect the beat rate automatically and quite accurately. Then the chronograph doesn't need to be running. Of course it could be another 18000 beat rate chronograph movement CH27 and not a correct 321............

BartH · Nov 10, 2017

My guess it being a 145.012 is based on the case profile as seen from the side.

I was duped with a 145.012 with a service midcase a while ago and found that most correct 145.012's (whilst varying in shape somewhat) have the same side profile as the watch of the OP.

blubarb · Nov 10, 2017

BartH
My guess it being a 145.012 is based on the case profile as seen from the side.

I was duped with a 145.012 with a service midcase a while ago and found that most correct 145.012's (whilst varying in shape somewhat) have the same side profile as the watch of the OP.

the crown omega feet like those on the 145.012 narrow flat feet that would be right though wouldn't it

blubarb · Nov 10, 2017

maxbelg
Sure, let's wait and see, however I don't think even a badly running watch can develop a beat rate of 18000 when it's supposed to be 21600. Another way I test is of course with the microphone of my earphones of my iPhone with an App like Timegrapher. The App can detect the beat rate automatically and quite accurately. Then the chronograph doesn't need to be running. Of course it could be another 18000 beat rate chronograph movement CH27 and not a correct 321............

As an add on. It’s not about what the base Calibre is doing. If the chronograph section is not adjusted properly or working correctly it can skip teeth and sometimes will tick 3 times, sometimes 6 or whatever. So I don't think it's a too reliable method, put it this way, I wouldn't bet a sheep station on it. 😗😀

As for the case, it could be any non straight lug Speedy from 65 onwards up to about the late 70’s 👎😗

Now I am really keen to see inside

maxbelg · Nov 10, 2017

blubarb
As an add on. It’s not about what the base Calibre is doing. If the chronograph section is not adjusted properly or working correctly it can skip teeth and sometimes will tick 3 times, sometimes 6 or whatever. So I don't think it's a too reliable method, put it this way, I wouldn't bet a sheep station on it. 😗😀

As for the case, it could be any non straight lug Speedy from 65 onwards up to about the late 70’s 👎😗

The base calibers beat rate differs in a 321 and a 861 Speedy. To establish the base layers beat rate without having a poorly-functioning chrono layer interfering there are 2 options:
1: Do the slow-motion video with the chrono stopped and focus only on the running sub-second hand to establish whether it moves 5 or 6 times per second.
2: As outlined above use a microphone from the earpieces of an iPhone with an app to establish the beat rate automatically.
🍿

EDIT: There's a 3d way too:
If you happen to own another watch with a beat rate of 21600 put both watches consecutively to your ear and establish whether one beats slower than the other. This was my tried and tested method prior to discovering the slow-motion video method. 👍

CutGlass · Nov 10, 2017

djhep
Hi CutGlass.
Thanks for the observations.
You are correct, my watch does not have the original dial. It was changed out some years ago, and the guys here think it probably a service dial from the 90's.
The watch needs some work anyhow, so I plan to send it off in next week or two.
Hopefully, i will find out more about it at that time

Sorry I did read the thread and meant to contribute something more useful. I suggested Michael Jones to just pop off the back for £20 so that you didn't end up with a situation where bits were replaced again, plus as authorized Omega Dealers, they have access to previous service history records. My local one photographed the calibre, serial numbers, inside of the case back and inside a scratched reference number for an unauthorised service.

The other thing I meant to mention was how was it photographed, I used to be a professional and have a lot of understanding of colour temperature (from the old days of slide file and needing to use colour correction filters and having started as a darkroom assistant), the last photo suggests a brownish tinge to the dial varnish which according to

https://www.fratellowatches.com/speedmaster-tropical-dial-parade/

shouldn't be possible on a service replacement dial on a 145.022-69 (last three photos and references) on the page. Mine has a dark chocolate tinge matching the last photo (and the DON bezel), It may be something as simple as a mixed light source suggesting a hint of dark chocolate on yours, your bezel doesn't look black either, though it almost looks as if it's going to end up blue which would be exceptional (I believe there are some less than reputable people in the USA that are creating blue bezels artificially and fitting them on 69's along with unnatural choclate dials and intend to post my "theory", don't want to get sued after all).

On your camera/ phone, find something seriously black put in the photo with the light setting a black point in shadow on the black item, white won't work as well as just take a couple of pieces of white paper from differing source and some junk mail elements and you'd be suprised at the difference in "white". If your camera is basic then photograph the watch under one light source, turning off Auto White Balance (AWB) and choosing either the cloudy or sunny setting. In shadow outside is good as then it will be blueish on a sunny day (as the primary light source for shadow is the blue sky) or neutral on your normal English dull day and then correct the colour temperature in software afterwards (the netural should require very little tweaking). Camera colour correction is fantastic nowadays and gives an acceptable result 90% of the time but for documentation purposes, a single light source gives a consistent balance for the colour temperature that can then be corrected in software to give the correct balance across the whole item to be photographed. Your dial is probably not chocolate tinged, on your watch back photo you can see that you are so close to the watch that your skin tone is reflecting light into the photo, your two side shots with that DAB radio in the background have dramatically different colour balances on the steel, but on the off chance that you have got a chocolate service dial, or your bezel is just that little bit bluer than normal due to Durban skies, then it's worth documenting before you send it off.

blubarb · Nov 10, 2017

maxbelg
The base calibers beat rate differs in a 321 and a 861 Speedy. To establish the base layers beat rate without having a poorly-functioning chrono layer interfering there are 2 options:
1: Do the slow-motion video with the chrono stopped and focus only on the running sub-second hand to establish whether it moves 5 or 6 times per second.
2: As outlined above use a microphone from the earpieces of an iPhone with an app to establish the beat rate automatically.
🍿

EDIT: There's a 3d way too:
If you happen to own another watch with a beat rate of 21600 put both watches consecutively to your ear and establish whether one beats slower than the other. This was my tried and tested method prior to discovering the slow-motion video method. 👍

Love the third way! Trouble is my left ear is shyte 😁

maxbelg · Nov 10, 2017

blubarb
Love the third way! Trouble is my left ear is shyte 😁

It should work with your right ear too.....😀, the trick is to have another watch with 21600 to compare too 👍

Spacefruit · Nov 10, 2017

I wouldn't touch the dial at all.

It is part of the history and in fact a good looking service dial is rarer than a good looking original. To be fair I accept 100% the value is perhaps 10% of the original but what you have there is a good looking Omega dial that was properly installed.

I really would not change the dial .It would in my opinion make it less original not more.

These tritium service dials are under appreciated and have an attraction all of their own. They were fitted for only a short period, and not many have survived. These are not to be confused with the superluminova service dials which are not even worth what they cost in my opinion.

If you do change the dial, I am a buyer for it. That should tell you something.

Get it to Simon.

gdupree · Nov 10, 2017

Spacefruit
I wouldn't touch the dial at all.

It is part of the history and in fact a good looking service dial is rarer than a good looking original. To be fair I accept 100% the value is perhaps 10% of the original but what you have there is a good looking Omega dial that was properly installed.

I really would not change the dial .It would in my opinion make it less original not more.

These tritium service dials are under appreciated and have an attraction all of their own. They were fitted for only a short period, and not many have survived. These are not to be confused with the superluminova service dials which are not even worth what they cost in my opinion.

If you do change the dial, I am a buyer for it. That should tell you something.

Get it to Simon.

I wish more collectors thought like this.

Especially since this watch has a long history with you, it's part of your history. Sure, a correct dial would be correct (wow I'm a genius), but it still never belonged with that watch. This one has a story, and is quite cool.

MaiLollo · Nov 10, 2017

gdupree
I wish more collectors thought like this.

Especially since this watch has a long history with you, it's part of your history. Sure, a correct dial would be correct (wow I'm a genius), but it still never belonged with that watch. This one has a story, and is quite cool.

If influent collectors start behaving & collecting this way, chances are that it will become mainstream one day 😉
I agree that the dial looks nice and a period correct one is going to cost a lot and will not be more original than the one you have there...
Then again it's your watch and your taste, if you want to hunt down a period correct dial because you like the looks of it, go for it!

Archer · Nov 10, 2017

All you need is one or the other beat rates in a watch you have on hand, so 18,000 or 21,600. If you know the rate that you have, all you need to be able to do is say if it's the same or not - the difference will be obvious.

Somewhere on here I'm sure I posted a link to a web site where you could set the beat rate in beats per second, and it would play a sound at that interval - easy way to compare even if you don't have the watch. Despite spending a lot of time searching using different key words, I can't seem to find that post. Oh well.

Cheers, Al

djhep · Nov 10, 2017

Thanks for the advice regarding the dial.
I think you guys have helped make up my mind on that score, and i will leave it as is. As i plan to keep this watch , i guess i would be gaining nothing by changing it.

CutGlass.......i think the blue sky (Spanish) was reflecting on the watch causing the dial and bezel to look a different colour. Both are black, so nothing unusual about it unfortunately.
Oh, thx for taking the time to write out the procedure for setting up colour / temp on camera phones. I will give that a go.

The watch is going to Simon next week for a service and a good look over. I will definitely report back here when i receive his assesment 👍.

CutGlass · Nov 10, 2017

djhep
The watch is going to Simon next week for a service and a good look over. I will definitely report back here when i receive his assesment 👍.

Actually, you could give me some advice, your photo looks like the chronometer buttons unscrew, as the missing one seems threaded? as mine have quite the build-up of grime in and around them. My father was given his by a rock star which is family lore and a bugger to prove, and frankly we thought it was fake (especially when the dial turned brown), hence he used it every day including after he left RCA and set up a painting and decorating company. Though the grime has protected the bezel perfectly, the buttons are distinctly sticky and even the crown is difficult to pull out.

djhep · Nov 10, 2017

Others here will certainly give you better advice than i can give, but the button push rod that can be seen is definitely threaded.
Would be nice to see some pics of your watch, oh and who was/is the rockstar that you mentioned. Sounds an interesting story.

CutGlass · Nov 10, 2017

djhep
Others here will certainly give you better advice than i can give, but the button push rod that can be seen is definitely threaded.
Would be nice to see some pics of your watch, oh and who was/is the rockstar that you mentioned. Sounds an interesting story.

I fully intend to photograph and document the watch and probably the technique of getting the colour balance right.

The rockstar will remain family lore unless I can locate where the watch was purchased or given to him for publicity. I wouldn't want to make any fraudulent claims even though the timeline as to how my father was given it matches perfectly and there is a quote by him in 1969 that shows he was aware of Omega wrist watches though didn't own one at the time.

Davidt · Nov 10, 2017

I certainly see the attraction of keeping the watch as is, given that the current dual has been part of its history for 20+ years. However, I'd still personally look to swap for a period correct one.

If one has several Speedmasters there's certainly an argument for keeping some examples 'as found'. However, if the OP has the one, i would try and return it to factory spec.

That and the fact that this type of dial and lume screams 80's/early 90's to me, which betrays the actual age of the watch.

maxbelg · Nov 10, 2017

Davidt
I certainly see the attraction of keeping the watch as is, given that the current dual has been part of its history for 20+ years. However, I'd still personally look to swap for a period correct one.......

I agree. Obviously everyone needs to decide this for themselves, but I'd want to restore the original look of a 145.012 and not have a newer dial without raised Omega symbol on top of an older 321 movement.

Slo084 · Nov 10, 2017

Whichever way the OP goes with regards to making it period correct or not, I think its still a nice watch nonetheless. Thanks for sharing the story. 😀

Sublime_1 · Nov 10, 2017

Archer
All you need is one or the other beat rates in a watch you have on hand, so 18,000 or 21,600. If you know the rate that you have, all you need to be able to do is say if it's the same or not - the difference will be obvious.

Somewhere on here I'm sure I posted a link to a web site where you could set the beat rate in beats per second, and it would play a sound at that interval - easy way to compare even if you don't have the watch. Despite spending a lot of time searching using different key words, I can't seem to find that post. Oh well.

Cheers, Al

Something like this? http://www.sharemyriffs.com/metronome

Poor Speedmaster slept in the bottom of the drawer for 15 years

maxbelg

BartH

blubarb

blubarb

maxbelg

CutGlass

blubarb

maxbelg

Spacefruit

gdupree

MaiLollo

Archer

djhep

CutGlass

djhep

CutGlass

Davidt

maxbelg

Slo084

Sublime_1

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