Phillips November 2023

[Spacefruit]

And the best speedmaster is….

there isn’t one. Not one.

https://www.phillips.com/auctions/auction/CH080223

Phillips have definitely changed direction in this collection, of 189 lots. Quite a lot of empty withdrawn lots which is unusual to see more than one or two.

53 Rolexes. The green dial Daytona seems to be estimated well below the previous 2 year high. The Patrezi is horrible. The “Pumpkin” GMT looks extraordinarily expensive - but I am probably missing something, and other than that a collection of offerings that do not immediately appeal.

52 Pateks. This will be where the auction house will pay the bills, and I am utterly unqualified to comment.

The rest, there are some nice FPJ’s but for the most part everything is proper money - and above my pay grade.

I think I would not be alone in skipping the viewing - and perhaps this is the idea to discourage enthusiastic collectors/gossips from coming. After all - the entire community smelled a Rat and the Perezcope nailed it to the floor.

after the $3.4m debacle of the brown 2915 if I were in Omega shoes I would be trying to instill some confidence in the speedmaster, and make sure that two or three nice examples were offered at very low estimates to bring people back in - after all in the private market speedmasters are changing hands quickly in the $8k-$17k range if they are right.

What do you think of the collection Phillips is offering?

out of interest are any of the Rolex’s good?

which of these lots do you think will be unsold? (My favourite game to play )

 

[Duracuir1]

I always enjoy watching the Phillips auction but only because I find Aurel, Tiffany and Marcello entertaining.

These watches are always well above what I can pay. Still a nice collection.

I don’t know much about the Rolex watches offered to comment on which are best.

I do like the look of this one. And to play the “this will remain unsold” game, I am picking these three lots, based on their high estimates and (to me) unusual design.

 

[cchen]

Spacefruit

I think I would not be alone in skipping the viewing - and perhaps this is the idea to discourage enthusiastic collectors/gossips from coming. After all - the entire community smelled a Rat and the Perezcope nailed it to the floor.

Don't understand this point. It's always fun to take a look especially at watches you don't see everyday

 

[timjohn]

I think the Derek Pratt will find a buyer -- he was up there with George Daniels as a craftsman and they are really really rare....

 

[Dan S]

Lots of newish watches that aren't in my wheelhouse, but I looked quickly at the Rolex sport models and the estimates seem pretty unrealistic for the most part given the current market. Many of them have been detailed for sale in a way that is unappealing to me, and unoriginal parts are not mentioned.

The GMT you mentioned is an exception IMO, and I think it will easily make the estimate. The case has a mediocre refinish, but a nice gilt-gloss 1675 with bracelet and papers will easily make $25k USD.

I love the IWC ref 325 of course, and I think the estimate may be low. If I trusted this auction house at all, I would probably bid on that one,

I don't see myself bidding in a Phillips auction any time soon, if ever, or Antiquorum, for that matter. It's just hard to get past the things I've seen and I would prefer to buy from private owners and small auction houses who sell watches as they receive them. Yes, it often means taking on minor projects, but the watches are often more unrestored and honest.

 

[watchyouwant]

Looks like Aurel is as clueless as the rest of the Market. Play it safe with small batch high end watches. Not too much competition here and not a big chance, to trip into the next disaster.... would be interesting to know, how much Phillips had to refund in the Omega disaster. Somehow a guide in unchartered territory.... I had 2 Omega's earmarked for that Auction, but decided to wait till next year.

 

[M'Bob]

Spacefruit

out of interest are any of the Rolex’s good?

If one is a Day-Date collector, lot #86 in stainless steel is quite tasty.

 

[cchen]

Dan S

I don't see myself bidding in a Phillips auction any time soon, if ever, or Antiquorum, for that matter. It's just hard to get past the things I've seen and I would prefer to buy from private owners and small auction houses who sell watches as they receive them. Yes, it often means taking on minor projects, but the watches are often more unrestored and honest.

Some of my best buys have been from Antiquorum. They have so many lots that some fall through the cracks, if you know what you're looking for

 

[PerJ]

The market for sports models is soft. Especially for Speedys so I can understand why people aren’t consigning special pieces. I know I wouldn’t at this time.

As always there are some very special pieces that I could only dream of.

The catalogue is what could be expected. The high-end stuff will find buyers at a high price point and the lesser quality and rarity will sell within the estimates. Many probably closer to the low est than usual.

I am exceptionally mainstream. And way too poor.

Edited: Oct 6, 2023

 

[ATWG]

Like lot 114, Rolex 1655. It looks to be all there, has beautiful pumpkin markers and gorgeous orange hand. It's an MK2 dial with correct bezel and appropriate serial along with 2 SS bracelets. The added bonus is the B&P which makes this somewhat rare and extremely desirable.

I would value this watch around $29K USD, will be interesting to see where it lands.

https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080223/114

What I don't understand is, why would anyone bid on a Rolex VTNR at Phillips and incur fees when these watches are plentiful in the grey market.

 

[Dan S]

ATWG

Like lot 114, Rolex 1655. It looks to be all there, has beautiful pumpkin markers and gorgeous orange hand. It's an MK2 dial with correct bezel and appropriate serial along with 2 SS bracelets. The added bonus is the B&P which makes this somewhat rare and extremely desirable.

I would value this watch around $29K USD, will be interesting to see where it lands.

https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080223/114

What I don't understand is, why would anyone bid on a Rolex VTNR at Phillips and incur fees when these watches are plentiful in the grey market.

I like the dial with waffle lume (not pumpkin IMO, just a nice yellow) on that 1655, but I don't really like the condition of the case and bezel (looks like a mediocre soft polish/rebrush with sloppy repainted bezel numbers) and I strongly suspect the hands are repainted. B&P are very uncommon to be sure. The bracelet situation is strange because they mention a C&I (which I don't really like anyway) but they show a modern jubilee and a modern 78360. I consider this to be a watch that was heavily detailed for sale and it's not a watch for me at the price it will likely sell for.

Edited: Oct 6, 2023

 

[PerJ]

Dan S

I like the dial with waffle lume (not pumpkin IMO, just a nice yellow) on that 1655, but I don't really like the condition of the case and bezel (looks like a mediocre refinish with sloppy repainted bezel numbers) and I strongly suspect the hands are repainted. B&P are very uncommon to be sure. The bracelet situation is strange because they mention a C&I (which I don't really like anyway) but they show a modern jubilee and a modern 78360. I consider this to be a watch that was heavily detailed for sale and I'm not really interested.

It is probably what they describe. A jubilee with a clasp marked C&I. I am not interested in this piece but I find it peculiar that you need to request the condition report.

 

[Dan S]

PerJ

It is probably what they describe. A jubilee with a clasp marked C&I. I am not interested in this piece but I find it peculiar that you need to request the condition report.

OK, I may have misunderstood because the jubilee looks like a 62510H to me.. I thought they meant that the second bracelet was a C&I.

 

[ATWG]

Dan S

I like the dial with waffle lume (not pumpkin IMO, just a nice yellow) on that 1655, but I don't really like the condition of the case and bezel (looks like a mediocre soft polish/rebrush with sloppy repainted bezel numbers) and I strongly suspect the hands are repainted. B&P are very uncommon to be sure. The bracelet situation is strange because they mention a C&I (which I don't really like anyway) but they show a modern jubilee and a modern 78360. I consider this to be a watch that was heavily detailed for sale and it's not a watch for me at the price it will likely sell for.

Interesting....I don't think the case is as bad, crown guards are there, yes, the polish is not by any stretch to factory specs but it's not terrible with cratered lug holes either. I can't comment on the hands, have seen plenty of original orange hands with the wave in the middle (own one personally) so I refrained judgement. As for the bezel, again, I have seen exact markings and finish on original MK2/3's and without seeing the watch in person, reserve judgement on potential refinishing/re-painting. I do see grime build up around the bezel which makes me think it's original. Those my observations, not a whole lot that can be discerned from 3 photos.....I do know that I wouldn't kick this one out of bed just because.....

 

[eugeneandresson]

Spacefruit

after the $3.4m debacle of the brown 2915

This sounds awfully like a gavel hitting a nail squarely on the head…

Not to change topic, but I wonder how this whole thing is playing out … maybe its time to bump the other thread …