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Mark020
··not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawerSome seriously nice stuff. Like the pics of Ph btw.
Phillips Auctions Bringing About a Brave New World...again
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LarryG
·Ok, neither a split second, nor a Patek. But the strap,is similar, no?
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Brench
·interesting views to read. I have to agree with Tony on this one. End is not in sight. And after UG, something 'new' will pop up; a never ending story.
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shy06002
·Went to the preview and they were nice enough to let me try on any watch that I wanted! I was honestly pretty nervous handling some of the watches knowing their values. Just some pictures from my iphone, took a bunch more on my real camera.
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shy06002
·It was rather small and definitely not as many people as I imagined. A handful of people trickled in and out. The layout of it was just a small room and they did not have every watch displayed which was disappointing. I was really excited to look at some of their Omegas but they didn't have any of them out. It was definitely exciting to handle such valuable watches though which is a first for me (We're talking about some expensive Pateks). The staff was extremely helpful and friendly which was a plus. You're allowed to touch, try on, and examine just about every watch.
Biggest surprise was probably the Rafael Nadal Richard Mille. I'm not really into Richard Mille but I can certainly see the appeal in these watches now. As complicated of a tourbillon movement as it looks, it was quite literally the lightest watch I have ever held in my hand. I expected this watch to weigh a ton just by the looks of it but it weighs less than 20 grams, literally as light as a feather.
Another favorite was probably the one off Tudor. The thought of a one off that doesn't have those awkward hour hands makes me want it. The estimate for it is quite low but being a one off I can only image how high it will actually go for.
Biggest surprise was probably the Rafael Nadal Richard Mille. I'm not really into Richard Mille but I can certainly see the appeal in these watches now. As complicated of a tourbillon movement as it looks, it was quite literally the lightest watch I have ever held in my hand. I expected this watch to weigh a ton just by the looks of it but it weighs less than 20 grams, literally as light as a feather.
Another favorite was probably the one off Tudor. The thought of a one off that doesn't have those awkward hour hands makes me want it. The estimate for it is quite low but being a one off I can only image how high it will actually go for.
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ELV web
·Well consider these sold out in a day http://shop.hodinkee.com/products/the-mb-f-lm101-limited-edition-for-hodinkee-in-steel
I think we need a major economic crisis to stop the trend....
I think we need a major economic crisis to stop the trend....
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BartH
·Well consider these sold out in a day http://shop.hodinkee.com/products/the-mb-f-lm101-limited-edition-for-hodinkee-in-steel
I think we need a major economic crisis to stop the trend....
Well the last economic crisis didn't do the trick...
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tomvox1
·As a non-bored Rolex & Omega collector who likes a whole lotta other classic Swiss brands (namely Heuer, IWC, Longines, etc) I have to say I have a hard time taking the crazy fast rise in value of the Speedy-style Tri-Compaxes seriously (and yes I was certainly caught out by it! 😉). Sure they have beautiful dials and very solid water resistant midsize Speedy-style cases for a cool tool watch look, as well as elite multiple complications. And obviously they are getting a strong tailwind from the Ninas. But the movements under the hood are, not to put too fine a point on it, pig ugly:
Now maybe that doesn't matter to the newest wave of collectors who get their tips for what's hot from the professional "enthusiast" websites and don't know diddly about things like movement finishing as key element of the soul of a watch. But I know it bothered my when I owned the Speedy-style version. It's like UG had a ton of old movements lying around from the 50s and just popped them into the new 1960s cases with no finishing whatsoever. Just seemed mega cheap to me. At least the Val 72 UGs have decent level of finishing, as well as their undisputed rarity.
And don't even get me started on Enicars, which were like a bargain bin watch just the other day. Every dog has its day I guess ??? 🤬
Ok, rant off. 😁
Best,
T.
PS And lest you think I am picking on the Tri-Compax I am in fact a proud owner:
But at least this one has a hint of finishing to the movement so I can sleep at night...
😜
Now maybe that doesn't matter to the newest wave of collectors who get their tips for what's hot from the professional "enthusiast" websites and don't know diddly about things like movement finishing as key element of the soul of a watch. But I know it bothered my when I owned the Speedy-style version. It's like UG had a ton of old movements lying around from the 50s and just popped them into the new 1960s cases with no finishing whatsoever. Just seemed mega cheap to me. At least the Val 72 UGs have decent level of finishing, as well as their undisputed rarity.
And don't even get me started on Enicars, which were like a bargain bin watch just the other day. Every dog has its day I guess ??? 🤬
Ok, rant off. 😁
Best,
T.
PS And lest you think I am picking on the Tri-Compax I am in fact a proud owner:
But at least this one has a hint of finishing to the movement so I can sleep at night...
😜
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bazamu
·I mean, I feel like that's being pretty harsh...you give points to the Compax for their undisputed rarity, but not to the Tri-Compax? The original two variations (881101/1 and 2) are also rare as hell, and while the finishing might not be on the level of some other brands from the era, it's still a unique movement that packs a more complicated punch than any competitors.
For example, take a look at the Carrera 2447's meteoric rise...I don't see any difference in finishing between the two (your first picture of the cal 281 was a filthy movement...):
Carrera (V72):
(Clean) UG cal 281:
For example, take a look at the Carrera 2447's meteoric rise...I don't see any difference in finishing between the two (your first picture of the cal 281 was a filthy movement...):
Carrera (V72):
(Clean) UG cal 281:
Edited:
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tomvox1
·I mean, I feel like that's being pretty harsh...you give points to the Compax for their undisputed rarity, but not to the Tri-Compax? The original two variations (881101/1 and 2) are also rare as hell, and while the finishing might not be on the level of some other brands from the era, it's still an in-house movement that packs a more complicated punch than any competitors.
For example, take a look at the Carrera 2447's meteoric rise...I don't see any difference in finishing between the two (your first picture of the cal 281 was a filthy movement...):
Carrera (V72):
(Clean) UG cal 281:
Could it come down to a lot of servicing stripping off the plating of some of these movements? Or that as time went on demand outstripped production and UG needed to hurry things along? An interesting topic for future investigation...
As for rarity, that is always a loaded topic but I will certainly defer to your expertise on that. Personally I've seen and owned several /1 & /2s but again that doesn't really mean anything data-wise. There used to be more of them available to own, as well, and all at $5-6K! 😉 I feel like the "exotic" dial Tri-Compaxes are probably the most scarce, as I almost never see those while hunting, but happy to be corrected on that. I do feel that the Nina-style Compax and its siblings are much harder to find watches than the standard Panda/inverse Panda dial "Speedy"-cased Tri-Compax even before the frenzy. Almost never ran into those here in NYC in over a decade of collecting & searching the shops and sales corners. Probably more prevalent in Europe.
I will, however, gladly concede that any given "Speedy"-cased Tri-Compax is more scarce than any given "standard" Rolex Valjoux 72 Cosmograph. 😀
One final thought: Both the early Carrera (and a lot of other vintage Heuers) & the Nina have been driven up in no small part by their tangible connection to motorsport and the confluence of the twin passions of horology and racing. Same goes for the massive jump in the "Jim Clark" Enicar Sherpa Graph. So far there is no connection that I'm aware of like that for the Tri-Compax. But I'm sure Aurel & Co. are busily working on finding a link to someone famous! 😎
All the best & happy collecting,
T.
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bazamu
·I think the Tri-Compax is more accessible (in terms of volume) than the Compax, but when taken against the greater universe of vintage watches, they still fall on the rarer end. I've never seen one in the wild and at one the last Red Bar Chicago events, I brought mine and it was clear that nobody had ever seen one in the flesh before. Again, that's not empirical data, but it's important to take a higher level view of the entire vintage watch universe from the 60's when trying to judge how "rare" something truly is. For every 100 Daytonas out there, there's probably 2 Tri-Compaxes and 1 Compax.
I saw somebody loosely trying to connect a panda Tri-Compax to Eric Clapton because he wore one on stage during a concert many years ago. That's the closest I've seen though. But hey, not every watch needs a definite tie to something from it's historical period.
Cheers,
Rob
I saw somebody loosely trying to connect a panda Tri-Compax to Eric Clapton because he wore one on stage during a concert many years ago. That's the closest I've seen though. But hey, not every watch needs a definite tie to something from it's historical period.
Cheers,
Rob
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Modest_Proposal
·I mean, I feel like that's being pretty harsh...you give points to the Compax for their undisputed rarity, but not to the Tri-Compax? The original two variations (881101/1 and 2) are also rare as hell, and while the finishing might not be on the level of some other brands from the era, it's still an in-house movement that packs a more complicated punch than any competitors.
For example, take a look at the Carrera 2447's meteoric rise...I don't see any difference in finishing between the two (your first picture of the cal 281 was a filthy movement...):
Carrera (V72):
(Clean) UG cal 281:
I think you're suggesting that the caliber 281 is an in-house movement by UG, which it is not.
Martel made their movements and supplied movements to other companies for decades.
If I remember, Martel might have been later bought by UG or Zenith or something - but even if that were true, I wouldn't say, then, that the movement was produced in-house from UG.
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bazamu
·You are correct, the phrase I should have used was "unique" (since edited above). My point being that the cal 281 was developed by UG rather than the Valjoux 72 movements that were often unadjusted and dropped into Heuer, Compaxes, and others in the period.
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LouS
··Mrs Nataf's Other SonAnd don't even get me started on Enicars, which were like a bargain bin watch just the other day. Every dog has its day I guess ??? 🤬
😜
Allelulia, Testify, bother! Stop the madness! Things have indeed gotten absurd.
I think you're suggesting that the caliber 281 is an in-house movement by UG, which it is not.
Martel made their movements and supplied movements to other companies for decades.
If I remember, Martel might have been later bought by UG or Zenith or something - but even if that were true, I wouldn't say, then, that the movement was produced in-house from UG.
It was in-house-ish. Martel pretty much exclusively supplied movements to UG - the exact nature of the relationship is not clear, but it was a very close one, to the extent that the Martel factory had "Universal" written on the building. Girrard Perregaux, Zenith, Jaeger and others who used Martel movements got them through UG. UG appears to have cast Martel loose (or vice versa) in the 1950s when they put most of their chips on their new microrotor movements. Martel operated independently for a few years (MMMD has a few examples of the output). Martel was then acquired by Zenith lock, stock and barrel in 1960 which had two consequences. It dried up the supply of chronograph movements to UG and compelled them to convert to the V72 for the Compaxes that are so ridiculously overvalued today, and it brought chronograph experience in house to Zenith. El Primero was born nine years later.
If you want to see the historical deets hashed out, here's the relevant thread/debate: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f27/short-history-martel-watch-co-zenith-chronographs-660565.html
I lost the debate but learned a lot.
the Martel movement factory:
Edited:
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LouS
··Mrs Nataf's Other SonRick Denney's picture of the building recently:
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Modest_Proposal
·Allelulia, Testify, bother! Stop the madness! Things have indeed gotten absurd.
It was in-house-ish. Martel pretty much exclusively supplied movements to UG - the exact nature of the relationship is not clear, but it was a very close one, to the extent that the Martel factory had "Universal" written on the building. Girrard Perregaux, Zenith, Jaeger and others who used Martel movements got them through UG. UG appears to have cast Martel loose (or vice versa) in the 1950s when they put most of their chips on their new microrotor movements. Martel operated independently for a few years (MMMD has a few examples of the output). Martel was then acquired by Zenith lock, stock and barrel in 1960 which had two consequences. It dried up the supply of chronograph movements to UG and compelled them to convert to the V72 for the Compaxes that are so ridiculously overvalued today, and it brought chronograph experience in house to Zenith. El Primero was born nine years later.
If you want to see the historical deets hashed out, here's the relevant thread/debate: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f27/short-history-martel-watch-co-zenith-chronographs-660565.html
I lost the debate but learned a lot.
the Martel movement factory:
As yes - I forgot that UG actually supplied many other with movements and not Martel directly.
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bazamu
·Allelulia, Testify, bother! Stop the madness! Things have indeed gotten absurd.
It was in-house-ish. Martel pretty much exclusively supplied movements to UG - the exact nature of the relationship is not clear, but it was a very close one, to the extent that the Martel factory had "Universal" written on the building. Girrard Perregaux, Zenith, Jaeger and others who used Martel movements got them through UG. UG appears to have cast Martel loose (or vice versa) in the 1950s when they put most of their chips on their new microrotor movements. Martel operated independently for a few years (MMMD has a few examples of the output). Martel was then acquired by Zenith lock, stock and barrel in 1960 which had two consequences. It dried up the supply of chronograph movements to UG and compelled them to convert to the V72 for the Compaxes that are so ridiculously overvalued today, and it brought chronograph experience in house to Zenith. El Primero was born nine years later.
If you want to see the historical deets hashed out, here's the relevant thread/debate: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f27/short-history-martel-watch-co-zenith-chronographs-660565.html
I lost the debate but learned a lot.
the Martel movement factory: