Out of the watch hobby for 4 years- what did I miss?

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There are several examples where Rolex have moved to limit the amount of flipping to greys etc, such as the move to retain papers, insist only on local customers, ban customers who’ve been caught flipping etc.

Are you sure that Rolex did these things? Rolex have publicly stated that distribution decisions are made by the AD's, not them...
 
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At the risk of injecting a bit too much reality into an otherwise rather fun bit of fantasy anger, on the spectrum of “disgusting” and “unethical” business practices that one can’t condone, it’s rather first world problems to view Rolex with such distaste. How they treat the wealthy wanting their jewelry!

I suspect many of us meanwhile continue to mindlessly (even knowingly) purchase from actually disgusting companies



Perhaps it’s only because I’ve not had my second cup of coffee that it seemed worth scoping our disgust for corporate business practices of luxury Swiss watch manufacturers
 
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Are you sure that Rolex did these things? Rolex have publicly stated that distribution decisions are made by the AD's, not them...

A couple of the articles/threads etc suggested it was a move by the ADs to appease Rolex’s displeasure at the amount of flipping going on
 
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At the risk of injecting a bit too much reality into an otherwise rather fun bit of fantasy anger, on the spectrum of “disgusting” and “unethical” business practices that one can’t condone, it’s rather first world problems to view Rolex with such distaste. How they treat the wealthy wanting their jewelry!

My post wasn't about wealthy watch owners whining about first world problems, but if it makes you feel better to paint it in that light, be my guest.

I said nothing about how they treated the customers...I specifically spoke to how they treated their business partners.

I can assure you that most independent watchmakers are not very wealthy, and many have been financially ruined and left the trade completely after being betrayed by Rolex.
 
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My post wasn't about wealthy watch owners whining about first world problems, but if it makes you feel better to paint it in that light, be my guest.

You’re right, which is evidence not that I’m misstating anything you said but instead that my comment wasn’t addressed to you.

I wasn’t intending to address your (seeming) side conversation about how Rolex has treated some ADs poorly, but rather the initial and broader conversation alleging how Rolex and ADs are essentially aligned and cooperating to create this present market, with non-flipper customers being on the loosing end.

(Notably, the latter being a conversation I was participating in and so not accidentally using the words “us” and “our” to implicate myself in the same sort of reflection on just how morally hazardous this all really is.)

But on your injection regarding how Rolex treats AD’s poorly: I’m a bit confused by its resulting conclusion. That Rolex treats some ADs poorly, while meanwhile Rolex and ADs are also allegedly cooperating to create this market, suggests what? That ADs selling to greys/flippers deserve our sympathy because they’re just sticking it to evil Rolex?

Seems your point was that, despite and unrelated to the conversations being had you have a different reason to dislike Rolex (the way they treat ADs), which in some indirect way is also proof that Rolex could if they wanted to stop ADs from selling to greys/flippers?

If/when Rolex screws over mom-and-pop ADs that’s shitty (assuming entirely that the ADs had done their due diligence and were reasonable in not pricing in Rolex’s apparently widely known shitty history as the AD’s accepted risk of doing business with Rolex).
 
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You’re right, which is evidence not that I’m misstating anything you said but instead that my comment wasn’t addressed to you.

You didn't quote my post, but did quote my terms. You of course have plausible deniability, so I will conceded this point, even though the intent seemed quite clear.

But on your injection regarding how Rolex treats AD’s poorly: I’m a bit confused by its resulting conclusion. That Rolex treats some ADs poorly, while meanwhile Rolex and ADs are also allegedly cooperating to create this market, suggests what? That ADs selling to greys/flippers deserve our sympathy because they’re just sticking it to evil Rolex?

The issue for me is consistency and hypocrisy. Rolex will apply their rules in the most brutal way when it benefits them, and not apply them at all when it benefits them.

Everything they do is perfectly legal of course, but as someone who as argued ad nauseum that legality is not the standard which we should apply in the watch collecting world, this seems to fly right past your ethical radar for some reason.
 
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The issue for me is consistency and hypocrisy. Rolex will apply their rules in the most brutal way when it benefits them, and not apply them at all when it benefits them.

Everything they do is perfectly legal of course, but as someone who as argued ad nauseum that legality is not the standard which we should apply in the watch collecting world, this seems to fly right past your ethical radar for some reason.

I never raised legality.

I never said it flew past my ethical radar.

I merely suggested (including toward myself) that regarding the discussion of effects to customers we right-size our outrage that “[a company] will apply their rules in the most brutal way when it benefits them, and not apply them at all when it benefits them.”
 
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I never raised legality.

I never said it flew past my ethical radar.

I merely suggested (including toward myself) that regarding the discussion of effects to customers we right-size our outrage that “[a company] will apply their rules in the most brutal way when it benefits them, and not apply them at all when it benefits them.”

I never suggested that we shouldn't "right-size" our outrage, regarding the discussion of the effects to customers.
 
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I never raised legality.

I never said it flew past my ethical radar.

I merely suggested (including toward myself) that regarding the discussion of effects to customers we right-size our outrage that “[a company] will apply their rules in the most brutal way when it benefits them, and not apply them at all when it benefits them.”
I never suggested that we shouldn't "right-size" our outrage, regarding the discussion of the effects to customers.

“Okay gentlemen, please approach the bench…”
 
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“Okay gentlemen, please approach the bench…”

I'm a starter mate, not a bench player...😉
 
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I never suggested that we shouldn't "right-size" our outrage, regarding the discussion of the effects to customers.

Did someone say you had suggested that? Wasn’t me.

Really, Al, I see now that I did re-use some of your choice phrases directed at Rolex, and that may have been on my part a lazy regurgitation - but several before you in this thread were using words like “disgusting” etc. over and over to describe the effects on customers (not the ADs), and while maybe I spoke too sloppy by reusing your words and so accidentally drew your ire (easily done, to be fair to me), I was never talking to you.

So hey, Rolex treats ADs shitty sometimes, and ADs together with Rolex treat customers shitty all the times, and fortunately none of us are forced to do business with either!
 
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I'm a starter mate, not a bench player...😉

You? Who would ever have assumed otherwise…
 
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Yes I hear all the time from people who buy watches from me that this is not the first time they have owned the watch. They regret selling it in the first place.
 
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Did someone say you had suggested that? Wasn’t me.

Really, Al, I see now that I did re-use some of your choice phrases directed at Rolex, and that may have been on my part a lazy regurgitation - but several before you in this thread were using words like “disgusting” etc. over and over to describe the effects on customers (not the ADs), and while maybe I spoke too sloppy by reusing your words and so accidentally drew your ire (easily done, to be fair to me), I was never talking to you.

So hey, Rolex treats ADs shitty sometimes, and ADs together with Rolex treat customers shitty all the times, and fortunately none of us are forced to do business with either!

One of my "choice phrases" was repeating what others had said (disgusting). I added "unethical" because that's how I see it. If you or others do or don't agree with this, makes no difference to me.

The point is that all the current issues flow from the unequal use of the rules that Rolex regularly uses to punish AD's (and watchmakers) for whatever reasons please Rolex. If Rolex really chose to crack down, they could, and it would have real impacts to the end buyer in terms of availability and pricing. But they don't, because this whole situation helps keep the hype alive, and as you have rightly pointed out, this is what drives the luxury world.

I have no "outrage" because unlike most people here, I have known how Rolex operates for a very long time, well before the current issues came anywhere close to reaching an actual watch buyer. I'm all out of outrage to direct towards Rolex. However that doesn't I won't express my opinions on how they operate.

Now that we have all staked out our various positions for all to see, I hope we all collectively feel better.

Cheers, Al