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Originally about tariffs and watches ... now just political rambling

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Archer
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Porteroso Porteroso
The fact that they are yet again paused just means he is more interested in negotiation than the tariffs themselves.
Possibly. But I think a bigger picture view is required. Trump allies are not all in favour of this, at least the extreme versions of these tariffs.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2025/04/congress-should-end-trumps-trade-war/

The market is in turmoil, bond yields are going in the wrong direction. I think currency has as much to do with this latest flip flop as any other factor…

Did you catch Rubio this past week?

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) on Wednesday's edition of 'Hannity' on FOX News warned U.S. sanctions will become impotent within the next 5 years as countries that deal with China will start using their own currency instead of the U.S. dollar.

"Just today, today, Brazil, in our hemisphere, the largest country in the Western hemisphere south of us cut a trade deal with China," Rubio said. "They're going to from now on do trade in their own currencies to get right around the dollar."

"They are creating a secondary economy in the world totally independent of the United States," Rubio continued. "We won’t have to talk about sanctions in 5 years because there will be so many countries transacting in currencies other than the dollar that we won’t have the ability to sanction them."

They are definitely concerned about a secondary economy being built that doesn't involve the US. This is what many people just don't seem to get in all this - when the US backs off or alienates countries, the vacuum that is left behind is going to be filled. It is likely going to be filled with something the US won't like.

China has been working on this with things like the Silk Road Initiative for years. The US is pulling back in aid…in the very soft power that they have wielded very effectively for decades. All this is in many ways playing right into China's hands.
 
Mtek
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Soft power was a waste and wrought with fraud. Hard power, like economic and military power, works much better. South Africa, as an example, was one of the biggest recipients of USaid. It was to help with the hiv epidemic there. They thanked us by being one of the first countries to join brics.
 
Dan S
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Archer Archer
All this is in many ways playing right into China's hands.

US isolation creates a powerful opportunity for China.
 
ErichPryde
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Mtek Mtek
Soft power was a waste and wrought with fraud. Hard power, like economic and military power, works much better. South Africa, as an example, was one of the biggest recipients of USaid. It was to help with the hiv epidemic there. They thanked us by being one of the first countries to join brics.

just curious, I'm not at all offended by your post here but I want to know how, if calling an Administration illogical meets your definition of an ad hominem attack, how does calling an organization fraudulent not meet that same definition? In fair warning, if we pull the definition of fraud or if we can agree upon a definition of fraud, it definitely opens the door to using that term (if you're OK with it in this context) in regards to other topics that have been discussed in this thread, assuming that you can demonstrate how usaid was or is actually fraudulent. That's worth considering- I think.

(as a side note that typo was a genuine typo because I am using talk text and unfortunately do not always proofread before I hit post)
 
Mtek
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ErichPryde ErichPryde
just curious, I'm not at all offended by your post here but I want to know how, if calling an Administration illogical meets your definition of an ad hominem attack, how does calling an organization fraudulent not meet that same definition? In fair warning, if we pull the definition of fraud or if we can agree upon a definition of fraud, it definitely opens the door to using that term (if you're OK with it in this context) in regards to other topics that have been discussed in this thread, assuming that you can demonstrate how usaid was or is actually fraudulent. That's worth considering- I think.
Some of our soft power, I am being lazy but that’s the first hit.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/02/at-usaid-waste-and-abuse-runs-deep/
 
ErichPryde
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Mtek Mtek
Some of our soft power, I am being lazy but that’s the first hit.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/02/at-usaid-waste-and-abuse-runs-deep/

Yes I've seen all of this, but fraud is something that intentionally deceives others, was any of this hidden? Or it is something that takes away rights from people and deprives them of those rights, did any of this  deprive someone of their rights?

We may not be able to hammer out an exact definition of what we think fraud is if we can't accept the dictionary definition, but I don't think any definition that lacks demonstrable deception should be a valid one.
 
Dan S
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It's just the usual gaslighting. "Fraud" and "waste" are obviously being used as substitutes for "things I don't like." But I'm not sure it's related to tariffs.

To be fair, all politicians tend to use language deceptively in similar ways. Some more blatantly than others.
 
Mtek
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Dan S Dan S
"Fraud" and "waste" are obviously being used as substitutes for "things I don't like." It's just the usual gaslighting.
Wrong, it’s being used as something that wasn’t disclosed to tax payers until the current admin exposed it. I’m showing my true colors again.
 
gatorcpa
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Mtek Mtek
I am open, and have been. I will also take a populist over a Trudeau.
Maybe one who is able to explain why their ideas are better. Not the current U.S. one.

It’s not the ideas, it’s the haphazard execution that troubles me.
gatorcpa
 
Mtek
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Dan S Dan S
It's just the usual gaslighting. "Fraud" and "waste" are obviously being used as substitutes for "things I don't like." But I'm not sure it's related to tariffs.

Nice edit Dan. 🤣
 
Dan S
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Mtek Mtek
Nice edit Dan. 🤣
Yes, I feel like the discussion is getting overtly political and straying from tariffs. So I added that. I'm glad I was able to give you a laugh.
 
Mtek
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Dan S Dan S
Yes, I feel like the discussion is getting overtly political and straying from tariffs. So I added that. I'm glad I was able to give you a laugh.
“Thanks for showing your true colors”. 😂
 
Archer
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Dan S Dan S
Yes, I feel like the discussion is getting overtly political and straying from tariffs. So I added that. I'm glad I was able to give you a laugh.
For one I appreciate you toning it down, as I don’t want to see this discussion shut down.

I hope others follow suit.
 
CalgaryJim
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Mtek Mtek
Illogical to me is the state of affairs Canada (for example) has put itself in.
As a Canadian I happen to now like the state of affairs Canada has put itself in, if you mean the Conservatives are behind the Libetals. Thank you Mark Carney. Trump is even showing Canada some respect now.
 
Evitzee
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Dan S Dan S
US isolation creates a powerful opportunity for China.
Just the opposite, imo. China has few friends anywhere now who will continue to buy all the stuff they produce without question, look at all of the stuff moved out of China to Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand and other locales. The Chinese economy is in a weak state and Xi will eventually have to come to the table and make a deal regarding tariffs. The USA is now putting itself in the catbird seat, negotiating directly with 70+ countries directly, leaving China out for now. Everything is in play but I don't see China as having a winning hand or position at this time. It's all up for negotiation now, and those that are at the table first will get the best deals. Whether it all works is yet to be determined.
 
Mtek
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CalgaryJim CalgaryJim
As a Canadian I happen to now like the state of affairs Canada has put itself in, if you mean the Conservatives are behind the Libetals. Thank you Mark Carney. Trump is even showing Canada some respect now.

I like him a lot, and follow him on X. I hope he is good for Canada and its citizens.
 
Mtek
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Evitzee Evitzee
Just the opposite, imo. China has few friends anywhere now who will continue to buy all the stuff they produce without question, look at all of the stuff moved out of China to Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand and other locales. The Chinese economy is in a weak state and Xi will eventually have to come to the table and make a deal regarding tariffs. The USA is now putting itself in the catbird seat, negotiating directly with 70+ countries directly, leaving China out for now. Everything is in play but I don't see China as having a winning hand or position at this time. It's all up for negotiation now, and those that are at the table first will get the best deals. Whether it all works is yet to be determined.

Trump hit the globe with tariffs, to include uninhabited penguin islands, for this very reason I think. I received it as a symbolic move as China is known to manipulate everything, and set up factories in foreign countries to subvert in the past. I thought there were over 30 in Africa, let alone the Asian countries you mentioned.
 
glownyc
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Mtek Mtek
Tariffs, doge, anti-regulation and gov downsizing, was promoted during Trumps campaign. There are no surprises here to me, and half the country. Many are happy to see a leader actually do what they campaigned on.
Is that why members of congress were booed at town halls by the constituents who voted for them? Is that why they were advised not to and have stayed away from having in person face to face meetings with those constituents? Because of the happiness? The truth is even the people who are for those things are unhappy with the execution and the tariffs are no exception.
 
Mtek
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glownyc glownyc
Is that why members of congress were booed at town halls by the constituents who voted for them? Is that why they were advised not to and have stayed away from having in person face to face meetings with those constituents? Because of the happiness? The truth is even the people who are for those things are unhappy with the execution and the tariffs are no exception.
I haven’t watched any town halls, I don’t watch msm at all actually. One would see diff results if the audience were oil or auto workers, vs maybe DC fed workers (as an example). One thing for certain, tariffs were mentioned on the campaign trail and before the election.
 
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