Original dial of a 1960s Seamaster ?

vonrozen · Jul 27, 2022

A dutch collector has offered me his Seamaster, assuring me of its original condition but closer inspection of the dial reveals tiny bubbles, like paint which has been incorrectly applied. Is this old patina or a repainting job gone wrong ?

thank you !

gbesq · Jul 27, 2022

Not unusual for a watch of this age to develop bubbling of the dial lacquer, particularly if there has been some exposure to moisture. Some collectors are bothered by it and some aren’t. Your call.

Dan S · Jul 27, 2022

It’s fairly common dial damage. Not desirable and it affects value. But it needn’t be a dealbreaker if you personally find it appealing.

SkunkPrince · Jul 27, 2022

I have a 166.010 that has a lot more bubbling than that. On the wrist? Can't tell it's there.

As a result, I am unconcerned.

Bourne1984 · Jul 27, 2022

I’ve had the same, not as much and you couldn’t see it. Depends on the price???

bmpennington · Jul 27, 2022

Wow the dial looks like it was made that way, at least from the pic.

Davidt · Jul 27, 2022

It’s an original dial with age related bubbling.

Spruce · Jul 27, 2022

Looks fine - what price is he asking? Any service history? Any movement photos? Signed crown or crystal?

TheGreekPhysique · Jul 27, 2022

Looks original with some "patina" or "damage" the extent of which is always a personal preference. I will add that your taste with regards to it might evolve over time. I use to tolerate and would go as far as to say drawn to heavily patinated watches but have become more and more picky of late. I blame the bad company that I keep 🤪 @gbesq

vonrozen · Jul 27, 2022

Spruce
Looks fine - what price is he asking? Any service history? Any movement photos? Signed crown or crystal?

thanks to all of you - incredible wealth of advice. Below the pics he sent me, he wants 650 E including shipping. Apparently the watch was at a doctor recently.

SkunkPrince · Jul 27, 2022

The lift angle is wrong, should be 49°. Plus, the rate in one position is more meaningless than not.

I'd be planning to get it serviced properly.

Spruce · Jul 27, 2022

I think the watch looks fine, the movement is clean (which suggests that it has been serviced) and the price is reasonable. Obviously, when you buy from a dealer or collector who sells, you can probably return the watch if it arrives and either it’s not in the condition that you might have expected or you just don’t like it.

I’m assuming that you’ve only seen photos so don’t forget that good photos can be very unforgiving and highlight blemishes that you don’t actually notice when you have it on your wrist.

My 165.003 has quite a few dial blemishes that are clear in the photos but not so much in actuality.

I’d take it as serviced not rush to have another unless problems arise.

vonrozen · Jul 27, 2022

New language to me: what on earth is a ‘lift angle’ ? So is the whole table just to impress the amateurs ?
Thanks Spruce, i have a good feeling with him, so i think i ll go for it - the price is not bad too . I wonder how the caliber ranks amongst the collectors folk ? So many Seamasters were made , i guess it must have been a pretty common watch back then ?

gbesq · Jul 27, 2022

TheGreekPhysique
Looks original with some "patina" or "damage" the extent of which is always a personal preference. I will add that your taste with regards to it might evolve over time. I use to tolerate and would go as far as to say drawn to heavily patinated watches but have become more and more picky of late. I blame the bad company that I keep 🤪 @gbesq

What can I say, I’m a bad person. And extremely picky about dial quality. 😁

Dan S · Jul 27, 2022

vonrozen
New language to me: what on earth is a ‘lift angle’ ? So is the whole table just to impress the amateurs ?
Thanks Spruce, i have a good feeling with him, so i think i ll go for it - the price is not bad too . I wonder how the caliber ranks amongst the collectors folk ? So many Seamasters were made , i guess it must have been a pretty common watch back then ?

Since the lift angle setting is wrong, the amplitude measurement will be wrong. The beat rate should be accurate, but of course only in one position.

You can find a number of tutorials on watch movements and timegrapher readings on the internet and YouTube. The caliber in this watch is a perfectly good one.

Spruce · Jul 27, 2022

vonrozen
New language to me: what on earth is a ‘lift angle’ ? So is the whole table just to impress the amateurs ?
Thanks Spruce, i have a good feeling with him, so i think i ll go for it - the price is not bad too . I wonder how the caliber ranks amongst the collectors folk ? So many Seamasters were made , i guess it must have been a pretty common watch back then ?

I’m not sure 'common' is the word I’d choose. Omega were always a high end make - for build as well as design - and easy to see if you look at the quality of the movement on your proposed watch. The original would also have had a signed crystal and crown.

As a consequence they were stylish and aspirational - Don Draper in Madmen wears one - and Seamasters have never been cheap, either new or second hand.

You haven’t shown the inside caseback but I’m guessing it may be a 166.002, in which case your case will be slim, elegant and stylish! Possibly like this .003 case.

vonrozen · Jul 28, 2022

Thank you very much Spruce and DanS , yes it is the slim case version. When you speak about the beat rate ( being wrong) does it mean the watch won’t keep time ? I am not picky and change watches from day to day anyway so if the movement gains/ looses a minute per day it is no problem at all.

Spruce · Jul 28, 2022

vonrozen
Thank you very much Spruce and DanS , yes it is the slim case version. When you speak about the beat rate ( being wrong) does it mean the watch won’t keep time ? I am not picky and change watches from day to day anyway so if the movement gains/ looses a minute per day it is no problem at all.

I also change watches frequently and have never had any accuracy problem with a serviced Omega. The 5** series movements are excellent, easy to service and parts are available if needed.

So, I never worry about beat rate, or amplitude (which I don’t understand). I strap on the watch check it’s running and, providing it’s within a minute or two of my phone display, I’m good to go.

That said, I’ve never had the need to measure my work/life in seconds. Providing I catch that train or make that meeting on time or about (I’m generally early) I’m good.

Oh, and I like a sweep second hand because if I’m watching/doing something really boring, it’s reassuring to see that time hasn’t actually stood still even though it can sometimes seem like it has.

vonrozen · Jul 28, 2022

Dan S
Since the lift angle setting is wrong, the amplitude measurement will be wrong. The beat rate should be accurate, but of course only in one position.

You can find a number of tutorials on watch movements and timegrapher readings on the internet and YouTube. The caliber in this watch is a perfectly good one.

Will the tiny bubbles on the dial multiply ? Anything i can do to stop it ? If they arise due to moisture should i keep it in a really warm sunlit place for a while ?

Dan S · Jul 28, 2022

vonrozen
Thank you very much Spruce and DanS , yes it is the slim case version. When you speak about the beat rate ( being wrong) does it mean the watch won’t keep time ? I am not picky and change watches from day to day anyway so if the movement gains/ looses a minute per day it is no problem at all.

The lift angle setting doesn't affect the beat rate measurement, so the fact that the lift angle setting is wrong doesn't affect the beat rate measurement. It does affect the amplitude measurement, so that number is not reliable. The measured rate of +1.3s per day suggests that the watch should keep good time. Although obviously that measurement reflects just one position, so it may be somewhat different on the wrist. However, I would not expect it to be as bad as one minute per day.

vonrozen
Will the tiny bubbles on the dial multiply ? Anything i can do to stop it ? If they arise due to moisture should i keep it in a really warm sunlit place for a while ?

There has been some damage to the lacquer coating on the dial. It's hard to say the reason, perhaps some exposure to humidity, but it could also just be due to age. As always, you should keep the watch away from moist conditions, and hopefully it will not degrade further.

Original dial of a 1960s Seamaster ?

vonrozen

gbesq

Dan S

SkunkPrince

Bourne1984

bmpennington

Davidt

Spruce

TheGreekPhysique

vonrozen

SkunkPrince

Spruce

vonrozen

gbesq

Dan S

Spruce

vonrozen

Spruce

vonrozen

Dan S

Similar threads

Some doubts about the dial of a ref 2767-5 sc

looking for a 1960s seamaster. any thoughts on the authenticity?

looking for a 1960s seamaster. any thoughts on the authenticity?

1960s Seamaster original beads of rice bracelet number/recommendation?

Early 1960s Seamaster Black Dial