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kyle L
··GrasshopperAlso have this 12.2 Serial 352, maybe it's an early example when they first started putting officially certified on the dials? The officially certified is thinner and lighter.
Omga Centenary 2499-officially Certified On Dial?
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mondodec
·Yes, if we follow the logic of post 51 movements going to BOs then theres every possibility that they restamped a dial batch to comply with the new regulations.
Your original post has led to a very interesting exploration of possibilities Kyle..
Cheers
Desmond
Your original post has led to a very interesting exploration of possibilities Kyle..
Cheers
Desmond
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kyle L
··GrasshopperHere's the email I recieved from Mr. Monachon:
Dear Mr Kyle L,
The archives do not confirm this detail.
From my experience and opinion, this dial variation with “officially certified” is possible on the ref. 2499 but not on the 2500.
Hope it helps.
Kind regards.
Alain
Dear Mr Kyle L,
The archives do not confirm this detail.
From my experience and opinion, this dial variation with “officially certified” is possible on the ref. 2499 but not on the 2500.
Hope it helps.
Kind regards.
Alain
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorKyle also posted on Purist (smart guy Kyle is in seeking to broaden his search for diverse input - I think he is getting a very good education 😉 ) and your ad ties in with the point at which Omega decided to send its watches to the BOs to be officially certified, said to be around 1951. A change in regulations meant that companies could not do in-house testing and call the watch a chronometer but had to send the movements to a third party. So, arguably, any watch movement produced prior to 1951 would not have the Officially Certified appellation but just chronometer and any movement produced after 1951 would have Officially Certified.
I agree, and based on the page below from the same 1950 catalog, Omega certified some movements in-house and others independently at that time.
I can easily see this distinction being made by model or reference number at Omega. So this ties in somewhat with the information Kyle received from Bienne regading the two Centenary references.
Hope this helps,
gatorcpa
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X350 XJR
··Vintage Omega AficionadoMy 352 12.2 is marked as well. All the lettering appears to be the same weight though.
Ah, the mysteries of Omega...
Ah, the mysteries of Omega...
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorMy 352 12.2 is marked as well. All the lettering appears to be the same weight though.
See, and my Ref. 2517 with an 11.5M serial number is not marked.
Omega told me that this watch was shipped to Italy in 1950, so you can't follow the dating charts too closely on these.
Here is a link to the Purists dicussion on this subject:
http://omega.watchprosite.com/show-forumpostf/fi-677/pi-5624628/ti-832198/s-0/
There is some interesting information on that link, including an Omega generated chronometer certificate and a graph showing the increase in Officially Certified Chronometers resulting from the 1951 Swiss law change. It's a real shame that I can't cross link this post to the PuristS, but them's the rules over there.
Good stuff,
gatorcpa
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kyle L
··GrasshopperAnother possible example?
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?222519-My-grandfather-s-Omega
This one's interesting because the serial is even earlier at 11.5 mil.
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?222519-My-grandfather-s-Omega
This one's interesting because the serial is even earlier at 11.5 mil.
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chiko7734
·
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mondodec
·Could be, although that dial style is the earlier of the dials and doesnt have the arabic 12. Interesting that most if not all of the 28.10/ 343 Centenary models Ive seen have Swiss at six o'clock and not Swiss Made. 1951 was obviously a watershed year.
What we don;t know yet is if these very late 2499s were actually sold as Centenarys or just as chronometers. The decisions to launch the Constellation had all been made in 51
Also interesting to note Gator that certificates were by request until 51.
Cheers
Desmond
What we don;t know yet is if these very late 2499s were actually sold as Centenarys or just as chronometers. The decisions to launch the Constellation had all been made in 51
Also interesting to note Gator that certificates were by request until 51.
Cheers
Desmond
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mondodec
·I think we can say with certainty that later serial 2499s did have Officially Certified and that they were most probably produced in 1951, judging from the serials Ive been able to find.
I search an old hard disc with Centenary info and came up with two different examples of the 2499 with the Officially Certified script. Nopte also the embossed lettering on these later models, when the lettering on the first gen and most of the seond gen was not nearly as raised.They are definitely 2499s but one would imagine Centenary maybe being downplayed three years after 1948.
I might set down in a separate essay what we have collectively discovered (attributions of course). Here are the pics.
I search an old hard disc with Centenary info and came up with two different examples of the 2499 with the Officially Certified script. Nopte also the embossed lettering on these later models, when the lettering on the first gen and most of the seond gen was not nearly as raised.They are definitely 2499s but one would imagine Centenary maybe being downplayed three years after 1948.
I might set down in a separate essay what we have collectively discovered (attributions of course). Here are the pics.
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorJust when we though it was safe to call this model a non-Centenary...
The example from the TZ-UK thread in Kyle's last post had an extract of the archives done with some interesting information:
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?222519-My-grandfather-s-Omega&p=2376512&viewfull=1#post2376512
That particular example has an 11.5M serial number, but was listed as being delivered to Thailand in late 1949, well before there would have been any requirement for placing the "officially certified" on the dial. I think the dial is original, but don't really know enough about this particular model to be sure. The printing doesn't look embossed as Desmond mentions in his post above, but the font seems to be correct.
Now, I don't know what to think...
gatorcpa
The example from the TZ-UK thread in Kyle's last post had an extract of the archives done with some interesting information:
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?222519-My-grandfather-s-Omega&p=2376512&viewfull=1#post2376512
That particular example has an 11.5M serial number, but was listed as being delivered to Thailand in late 1949, well before there would have been any requirement for placing the "officially certified" on the dial. I think the dial is original, but don't really know enough about this particular model to be sure. The printing doesn't look embossed as Desmond mentions in his post above, but the font seems to be correct.
Now, I don't know what to think...
gatorcpa
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kyle L
··GrasshopperMaybe a replacement dial from Bienne or a redial? He did mention it was sent to Omega. 😕
Just when we though it was safe to call this model a non-Centenary...
The example from the TZ-UK thread in Kyle's last post had an extract of the archives done with some interesting information:
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?222519-My-grandfather-s-Omega&p=2376512&viewfull=1#post2376512
That particular example has an 11.5M serial number, but was listed as being delivered to Thailand in late 1949, well before there would have been any requirement for placing the "officially certified" on the dial. I think the dial is original, but don't really know enough about this particular model to be sure. The printing doesn't look embossed as Desmond mentions in his post above, but the font seems to be correct.
Now, I don't know what to think...
gatorcpa
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MSNWatch
··Vintage Omega AficionadoI know we are sorting out details here and I may have missed it but is there still any doubt whatsoever that officially certified is correct and original from the omega factory on the 343s contained in case ref. 2499 (no matter whether we call it centenary or not)? IMO there is no doubt that dials with the officially certified script are correct and the example that Kyle originally posted here is the real deal.
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gatorcpa
··ΩF InvestiGatorI know we are sorting out details here and I may have missed it but is there still any doubt whatsoever that officially certified is correct and original from the omega factory on the 343s contained in case ref. 2499 (no matter whether we call it centenary or not)? IMO there is no doubt that dials with the officially certified script are correct and the example that Kyle originally posted here is the real deal.
No doubt at all on my part. I remember Mondodec's article and knew these were correct, whatever Omega called them. What I learned today was the timeline and the change in Swiss law that occurred in 1951.
And that there are some members over at that other place who are joining here 😗
gatorcpa
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seamonster
·I think we can say with certainty that later serial 2499s did have Officially Certified and that they were most probably produced in 1951, judging from the serials Ive been able to find.
I search an old hard disc with Centenary info and came up with two different examples of the 2499 with the Officially Certified script. Nopte also the embossed lettering on these later models, when the lettering on the first gen and most of the seond gen was not nearly as raised.They are definitely 2499s but one would imagine Centenary maybe being downplayed three years after 1948.
I might set down in a separate essay what we have collectively discovered (attributions of course). Here are the pics.
Respectable Member mondodec
The embossed printing on a dial is always a delight to see.
Thank-you.
