Omega Speedmaster "Ultra Man"

padders · Oct 11, 2019

Is that serial a little early for the normally seen range?

The mid case certainly is odd. Look at the mis match on the bumpers either side of the crown. Not good.

This watch rings many alarm bells.

Speedimaster · Oct 11, 2019

ndgal
The mid case is not correct, and this section is the "Moonwatch Only" book is incorrect as well.
The case they are showing in this picture is a 90's case. I was actually thinking about contacting the authors and bringing that up to their attention when I saw this a while back, but I haven't seen the new edition of the book that just came out, maybe they fixed it.

Wow, just breathtaking your knowledge of these watches. Very big class. I'm really impressed 👍

ndgal · Oct 11, 2019

Speedimaster
Wow, just breathtaking your knowledge of these watches. Very big class. I'm really impressed 👍

Well, these sort of things one could only learn and observe by having years of experience and handling many of these watches in the metal (and not only through pictures).
The "Caseband" section of "Moonwatch Only" only gives you pretty superficial info regarding the casebands of both the straight lug and twisted lug Speedmasters.

There are actually many more differences and small nuances between the casebands other than just Straight lug/Twisted lug HF & CB...

For example page 66 (which you referenced in your previous reply) might have the reader believe that the twisted lug case pictured is from a 105.012-63 and all twisted lug cases from that reference on (with the exception of the CB variant) should look exactly the same.
The watch in that picture looks to be a modern Japanese Racing Dial. Therefore, it has the modern mid case profile which started in the late 90's and used by Omega till today.
The side profile of the modern Speedmaster Professional cased does not have that round sweeping curve as the vintage ones did.
The way the modern cases are cut, the side profile looks like it "breaks" and then goes towards the end of the lugs in a much straighter line than the vintage cases.

And here is a case side view of a Speedy Tuesday 1. Notice the same modern case profile:

If you compare to a 145.012 (top) & 145.022 (bottom) case profiles, you'll notice that those are totally different than the one pictured in "Moonwatch Only".

Not to mention that there are many other differences between a 105.012-63/-64/-65 cases and the later 145.012/145.022.
One day when I will find the time I will make an extensive post about all of my observations regarding the Speedmaster mid cases.

kingsrider · Oct 11, 2019

SpeedyPhill
Looks great with a decimal bezel... who uses a Tachymètre anyway !

That is what I was saying just the other day.

GMTspeedmaster · Oct 11, 2019

i love reading the thread. a lot of knowledge of vintage omega here. thanks

JanV · Oct 12, 2019

simonsays
Bezel looks legit from what @JanV told me... But who uses a decimal bezel anyway?

Yes, looks original to me, but with a bit of thicker print than usually seen. Why i like the decimal is how it balances the appearance of a good speedmaster.

simonsays · Oct 12, 2019

ndgal
That mid case is not right.

Here's what a correct 145.012-67 mid case profile should look like:

I think it is much more likely that the mid case has had some heavy handed polishing than being incorrect or replaced

ndgal · Oct 12, 2019

simonsays
I think it is much more likely that the mid case has had some heavy handed polishing than being incorrect or replaced

Nope. Definitely replaced.

simonsays · Oct 12, 2019

What are your reasons for this conclusion? I have never looked at the mid cases in detail, but you don’t say if your pics are of cb or hf?

The strangest thing I notice about this case is the bottom of the lugs on the side profile which finish in a point with no flat section. Is this a feature of a mid case you have observed?

eugeneandresson · Oct 12, 2019

2 more 145.012 mid-cases for posterity.

airansun · Oct 12, 2019

Wow!

Thank you gentlemen and particularly @ndgal 👍 for this enlightening thread.

I've always been a little mystified by the Professional midcases and MWO, in this rare instance, has been a less than satisfactory resource.

simonsays · Oct 12, 2019

@ndgal I still see a strong chance (and to me a more likely scenario) that this is polished, not modern replacement. The depth of the polished bevel is much larger than the modern cases you have shown, and I think looks consistent with a case re-profiled on a polishing wheel. It is no surprise that Omega also seem to have quite wide tolerances(when seen by macro) for the cases judging by the two 145.012 examples @eugeneandresson has shown above.

ndgal · Oct 12, 2019

simonsays
@ndgal I still see a strong chance (and to me a more likely scenario) that this is polished, not modern replacement. The depth of the polished bevel is much larger than the modern cases you have shown, and I think looks consistent with a case re-profiled on a polishing wheel. It is no surprise that Omega also seem to have quite wide tolerances(when seen by macro) for the cases judging by the two 145.012 examples @eugeneandresson has shown above.

Not a chance.
The correct 145.012-67 cases from that period have a much narrower lug than the one from the OP, so there is no chance they polished-on additional metal and changed the entire cut of the case at the same time.

Faz · Oct 12, 2019

I agree wholeheartedly with @eugeneandresson , the "Ultraman" is a beast of its own and the orange hand, in my opinion, doesn't distinguish this iteration of the Speedmaster in the same way does the 2998 reference. To each his/her own.

Regarding this particular watch, my concern lies with the blemishes on the chrono hand itself. What happened there? That question alone, combined with the eye popping price tag deserves reflection.

Cheers

simonsays · Oct 12, 2019

ndgal
Not a chance.
The correct 145.012-67 cases from that period have a much narrower lug than the one from the OP, so there is no chance they polished-on additional metal and changed the entire cut of the case at the same time.

I am no expert, but it would seem to me if you polished the front of the lug and top facet it would get larger, consistent with the larger polished area on the side of this case, and the brushed area would reduce in size. Perhaps this is why the bottom of the lugs now seem to finish in a point?

How many different 145.012 case profiles have you noted? @eugeneandresson appears to have two different types, assuming they are both Huguenin Frères

Nla91 · Oct 13, 2019

If this was a replaced modern midcase, I think the polishing line between the pushers looks suspicious. Look how it curves downwards to the outside of the pushers, like material has been removed. I would not expect this on a modern case. Are we sure this one not could be a very badly recut/polished case?

padders · Oct 13, 2019

Nla91
If this was a replaced modern midcase, I think the polishing line between the pushers looks suspicious. Look how it curves downwards to the outside of the pushers, like material has been removed. I would not expect this on a modern case. Are we sure this one not could be a very badly recut/polished case?

this is what I was referring to above. That area has seen some major intervention, one bumper is shorter than the other.

eugeneandresson · Oct 13, 2019

simonsays
It is no surprise that Omega also seem to have quite wide tolerances(when seen by macro) for the cases judging by the two 145.012 examples @eugeneandresson has shown above.

The 'wide tolerances' are my positional accuracy with respect to radial alignment of the watches when I shot these last winter. The watch lying on top is clearly rotated a few degrees more clockwise (with respect to the surface they are lying on) than the the watch underneath.

simonsays
@eugeneandresson appears to have two different types, assuming they are both Huguenin Frères

The cases of the watches I have shown are identical.

simonsays · Oct 13, 2019

eugeneandresson
The cases of the watches I have shown are identical.

The base or bottom of the lugs appear to have a different shape(*edit: on the side profile). One appears to have a longer flat area. It is not just your watches, I see this vary on several unpolished cases

simonsays · Oct 13, 2019

Maybe I was unclear, the bottom of the case on the side profile above the red line appears to differ. One has a much longer flat edge.

Omega Speedmaster "Ultra Man"

padders

Speedimaster

ndgal

kingsrider

GMTspeedmaster

JanV

simonsays

ndgal

simonsays

eugeneandresson

airansun

simonsays

ndgal

Faz

simonsays

Nla91

padders

eugeneandresson

simonsays

simonsays

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