Omega Speedmaster 1964 Ed White - Help Required

Ballsgate · Feb 18, 2020

Hi again....

I had hoped my next post would be to thank you for all your help and to report a successful sale. Unfortunately....no. The watch has sold BUT....due to my complete stupidity I failed to notice that it has a couple of problems re the chrono section. There are:

i. The small second hand runs but doesn't reset
ii. The small hour hand runs (checking this) but doesn't reset although I think it tries to

The small minute hand is fine (runs and resets) as does the large second hand (runs and resets). So all the hands run, they just don't all reset.

I have never used the chronograph and actually thought only the large second hand should reset. The fact that it's kept safe also means I never see it working, as I leave the large second hand in a stopped position. So to me it was all fine but another ebayer post sale asked a question which has caused my alarm.

My question to any of you who might be able to help is whether the above problems are HUGE, or whether a service/clean might be all that's needed. The watch has barely had any use over the years it was last serviced so a lube would sort things (he said hopefully). An idea of who might be able to undertake the work would be great as well. UK and preferably Midlands based ideally.

I apologise for being a complete idiot in not understanding how the watch works and that therefore, these problems exist.

Yours hopefully....Nick

Patrik83 · Feb 18, 2020

This is a "common" problem with 321 movements and usually called "chrono creep". It should be solved with a service.

Btw. The sub second hand should move (if watch is winded) and not react to chrono pushers, så all fine there.

Dan S · Feb 18, 2020

Patrik83
This is a "common" problem with 321 movements and usually called "chrono creep". It should be solved with a service.

Btw. The sub second hand should move (if watch is winded) and not react to chrono pushers, så all fine there.

What the OP is describing doesn’t sound like chrono creep to me, which is when the hour totalizer hand advances when the chronograph is not running. He says that the hour totalizer hand doesn’t reset, which is a different issue. But I agree that the solution is the same, in that the watch requires a full overhaul with potentially some additional repairs and it should not be a major issue to fix during a service. However that’s not guaranteed, and the watch could need repairs and replacement parts that wouldn’t show up until it was stripped down.

Back to the OP. Don’t go down the rabbit hole of trying to get the watch repaired. Big mistake. Just describe it accurately in your sale listing. All of these issues will reduce the price you get, but the cost and risk associated with repairing it is not worth it for you. Benefit from our experience and just unload the watch.

Ballsgate · Feb 18, 2020

Patrik83
This is a "common" problem with 321 movements and usually called "chrono creep". It should be solved with a service.

Btw. The sub second hand should move (if watch is winded) and not react to chrono pushers, så all fine there.

Thanks for this. So I might just have the one problem re the small hour hand which would be a relief. Once the problem was spotted, I assumed both the main second hand and small/sub second hand would both be reset by the pusher. I feel like I've been driving a car for years without knowing how to drive.

Many thanks.....Nick

Ballsgate · Feb 18, 2020

Dan S
What the OP is describing doesn’t sound like chrono creep to me, which is when the hour totalizer hand advances when the chronograph is not running. He says that the hour totalizer hand doesn’t reset, which is a different issue. But I agree that the solution is the same, and it should not be a major issue to fix during a service.

Back to the OP. Don’t go down the rabbit hole of trying to get the watch repaired. Big mistake. Just describe it accurately in your sale listing. All of these issues will reduce the price you get, but the cost and risk associated with repairing it is not worth it for you. Benefit from our experience and just unload the watch.

Thanks for this. I'm hoping that letting the watch run for some hours might help rectify things. I sold the watch for an acceptable price and would have been more than willing to drop the price further to cover the cost of a service, but the now ex buyer feels a little nervous so that's that. Oh well.

Thanks getting back to me. All best wishes....Nick

Dan S · Feb 18, 2020

Ballsgate
Thanks for this. I'm hoping that letting the watch run for some hours might help rectify things. I sold the watch for an acceptable price and would have been more than willing to drop the price further to cover the cost of a service, but the now ex buyer feels a little nervous so that's that. Oh well.

Thanks getting back to me. All best wishes....Nick

Yes, this happens when selling old watches, which is why it is good to be as accurate as possible and not over promise (I’m not suggesting you did that deliberately). An experienced collector who knows what they are buying will accept little issues that show up, but you can’t control who buys your watch on eBay. And newbies will get nervous and have buyers remorse.

In the next listing you could explicitly say that the watch is running but needs a full service.

Ballsgate · Feb 18, 2020

I feel a little foolish because I listed everything which the forum members had observed within the description as I wanted to be totally honest, BUT not that it might need a service. I did say it was last serviced in 1999 so I guess anyone would assumed it might need another one. It is something I should have mentioned though.

Many thanks as always....Nick

Dan S · Feb 18, 2020

If nothing else it protects you a bit and scares off really flighty buyers that you probably want to avoid anyway. You would be shocked how many newbies don’t really understand the need and cost of maintaining vintage watches and don’t account for it in their budget.

Ballsgate · Feb 18, 2020

Patrik83
This is a "common" problem with 321 movements and usually called "chrono creep". It should be solved with a service.

Btw. The sub second hand should move (if watch is winded) and not react to chrono pushers, så all fine there.

Can I just double check this...

The small sub second hand should run continuously (when wound) and does NOT centre (unlike the hour/minute/long second hand) when the bottom pusher is pressed. OR.....does sub second centre when the bottom pusher is pushed, but then continues to run ie it doesn't stop, unlike the others which do?

My sub second runs continuously but doesn't centre when the bottom pusher is pushed.

Welcome to my speedy nightmare! Many thanks....Nick

Dan S · Feb 18, 2020

The running second hand in the sub-dial near 9 o'clock has no connection to the chronograph whatsoever. Does that help?

Patrik83 · Feb 19, 2020

Just to make it very clear:

1. RED: The hands with a red arrow are connected to the chronograph function. So these should start and stop with the top right button and reset with the lower right button. These hands should stay in place when the chronograph is disabled and run when initiated.

2. BLUE: The hands with a blue arrow are running with the watch and will not start/stop or reset with the use of the chronograph functions.

Ballsgate · Feb 19, 2020

Dan S
The running second hand in the sub-dial near 9 o'clock has no connection to the chronograph whatsoever. Does that help?

Yes, it helps a lot. My confusion is in part because I found a Speedmaster manual/guide online which seems to imply the running second hand should centre. Looking again, the text/diagram is incorrect.

The fog is slowly clearing for me. All best....Nick

Ballsgate · Feb 19, 2020

Patrik83

Just to make it very clear:

1. RED: The hands with a red arrow are connected to the chronograph function. So these should start and stop with the top right button and reset with the lower right button. These hands should stay in place when the chronograph is disabled and run when initiated.

2. BLUE: The hands with a blue arrow are running with the watch and will not start/stop or reset with the use of the chronograph functions.

Thank you so much for this. Totally clear and I'm somewhat relieved. As I mentioned in my reply to Dan S, I found a manual/guide which seems to give false info as the diagram is incorrect which makes the info incorrect.

I ran the chrono section overnight and all the hands are moving with no problems. I had wondered whether my non-centring sub hour hand might stick once it had completed a full rotation but it's fine.

One thought.....as the sub hour snaps back with ease (feels very precise) but to the wrong position (see photo in your post), is there any chance that the hand has simply been re-attached incorrectly? If so, removing it and then replacing it at the 12 o'clock position (presuming it then worked) would mean all was actually OK with the chrono. I have no idea how the hands attach and whether there is only one position they attach to. I'm sure you can sense a degree of clutching at straws here....

Thanks again for taking time to reply. Best wishes....Nick

Patrik83 · Feb 19, 2020

Ballsgate
Thank you so much for this. Totally clear and I'm somewhat relieved. As I mentioned in my reply to Dan S, I found a manual/guide which seems to give false info as the diagram is incorrect which makes the info incorrect.

I ran the chrono section overnight and all the hands are moving with no problems. I had wondered whether my non-centring sub hour hand might stick once it had completed a full rotation but it's fine.

One thought.....as the sub hour snaps back with ease (feels very precise) but to the wrong position (see photo in your post), is there any chance that the hand has simply been re-attached incorrectly? If so, removing it and then replacing it at the 12 o'clock position (presuming it then worked) would mean all was actually OK with the chrono. I have no idea how the hands attach and whether there is only one position they attach to. I'm sure you can sense a degree of clutching at straws here....

Thanks again for taking time to reply. Best wishes....Nick

So if I understand this correct, the sub hour hand stays in place when chronograph function is stopped, runs when enabled. When reset is made the sub hour hand is placed at the same position as in the image (slightly after the "2" index). Sounds like if functions as intended but the hand is incorrectly placed at last service. Quite odd but should clear up at next service.

Ballsgate · Feb 19, 2020

Patrik83
So if I understand this correct, the sub hour hand stays in place when chronograph function is stopped, runs when enabled. When reset is made the sub hour hand is placed at the same position as in the image (slightly after the "2" index). Sounds like if functions as intended but the hand is incorrectly placed at last service. Quite odd but should clear up at next service.

That's correct although I'm now testing to ensure the hour does restart after being stopped.

I have no idea how difficult it is reset the hand but is it something that my local Omega dealer might be able to handle? They have an in-house repair person who I guess is there for small repairs.

I can't tell you how the weight has lifted off my shoulders since yesterday thanks to Dan S and yourself. Much appreciated!

Many thanks....Nick

Dan S · Feb 19, 2020

Straightforward to make that adjustment on a hand. Most likely it was attached correctly at the last service, but something happened to make it wonky. If it consistently resets to the same position, it is an easy fix. You do want it to be done by an experienced person, since the hand needs to be removed and replaced, and you don't want any damage to the dial in the process.

Patrik83 · Feb 19, 2020

Ballsgate
That's correct although I'm now testing to ensure the hour does restart after being stopped.

I have no idea how difficult it is reset the hand but is it something that my local Omega dealer might be able to handle? They have an in-house repair person who I guess is there for small repairs.

I can't tell you how the weight has lifted off my shoulders since yesterday thanks to Dan S and yourself. Much appreciated!

Many thanks....Nick

As have been said before. I would suggest that you just report this in the sale and just let the new owner decide who and what to be made to it.

Ballsgate · Feb 19, 2020

Patrik83
As have been said before. I would suggest that you just report this in the sale and just let the new owner decide who and what to be made to it.

Yes....I just wanted to be able to pass on some information to the (ex) buyer in the hope he might still be interested. It was sold under the ebay £1 final sale scheme so it was quite a saving. I'm not sure he'll find the Speedmaster in the condition he might require for his budget.

All best wishes.....Nick

Omega Speedmaster 1964 Ed White - Help Required

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Dan S

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Dan S

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