Omega Seamaster Calendar - French case

MasterMind · Oct 7, 2020

Hi there!
Recently I bought a "French cased" Omega Seamaster Calendar in solid 18k gold.

I tried to read something more about the whole deal with French cases but there is not much info about it on the Internet. I heard it was made this way because of tax evasion (it was cheaper to make gold cases in France than to import them from Switzerland).

I would like to know if a French case like this was made by some kind of Omega's subcontractors in France or in a different way - more privately by French jewelers? They have no reference numbers but some kind of serial numbers and old Omega logos inside caseback.

I also tried to verify who made it, read something about different markings but I haven't found any real answers. Was this knowledge about French manufacturers lost or someone here knows more about it?

SkunkPrince · Oct 7, 2020

That diamond symbol is likely the maker's mark. Wish I could tell you more.

MasterMind · Oct 7, 2020

It's strange there is no more info. I guess collectors from France should know more but they are present here on Omegaforums and I haven't read much from them (in other topics related to that matter).

PlainVanilla · Oct 7, 2020

Your watch looks stunning! Good luck on finding more info about the case maker.

Tom Dick · Oct 8, 2020

Evening

I own quite a few French gold Omegas now, they are excellent quality. Unlike cases made in South America the French and English made gold cases where equal in quality to the Swiss made ones and IMHO quite often better quality. Omega shipped movements to France (Besancon I believe) where they were cased up by specific French goldsmiths, there were only two case manufacturers I have found who made the French gold cased Omegas but also made cases (of a lesser quality) for other Swiss brands.

Erich (Mac_Omega) has written a wonderful book on Omega 30mm watches and within it is a section on French made Chronometres, page 362 will give you all you need to know. However, in summary to avoid massive tax on gold Omega worked with Maison Brand Freres in Paris to design the French cases, your watch is made by the same French case maker who made the famous 30T2RGSC Chronometres.

Have a read of this for more info

https://omegaforums.net/threads/french-omegas-and-their-numbers-looking-for-info.53549/

Hope this helps? Incidentally you should also find numerous eagle hallmarks on the watch to denote 18K gold

finally, it would be wrong of me not to call dibs 👍

Thanks tom

MasterMind · Oct 8, 2020

Thanks Tom, that's some good info!

I agree, this French made case looks excellent, not only because it's in immaculate condition (unpolished and looks to be almost unworn - I even bought it with original gold springbars) and yeah, the watch has French ealge hallmarks on right bottom lug, case side and caseback.

Also, congratulations, you're 7th on my private watchlist for this Omega - if anything changes I'll give you heads up! 😁

Tom Dick · Oct 8, 2020

You’re most welcome

it is a lovely piece, I’ve recently bought a similar condition 18K constellation which is french made, a rare beast as is yours

the key is not to be deterrred by the fact the case is french made, it is equal if not superior quality to its Swiss breatheran.

ha ha, don’t worry, I’m sure numbers 1-7 are more deserving than I and buying more watches at the moment might well earn me a divorce 😉

Best wishes Tom

MasterMind · Oct 8, 2020

Well Tom, what can I say - I call dibs on that Connie - I'm doing this only to save your marriage.

TimeODanaos · Oct 8, 2020

Tom Dick
Unlike cases made in South America the French and English made gold cases where equal in quality to the Swiss made ones and IMHO quite often better quality. Omega shipped movements to France (Besancon I believe) where they were cased up by specific French goldsmiths, there were only two case manufacturers I have found who made the French gold cased Omegas but also made cases (of a lesser quality) for other Swiss brands.

First, congrats to the OP, and thanks for posting that beautiful piece.
May I please grab the opportunity to ask @Tom Dick, is there a visual guide to the French casemakers' (equivalent to) poincons de maitre? I have posted a query elsewhere without success, but I get the impression you may have a lot of knowledge to share!

Flip · Dec 1, 2020

Hi Everyone
I’ve what I believed to be a French cased Omega that I’m currently researching, only to discover it’s not French at all, despite it bearing a French hallmark. According to sources it’s a French import hallmark.
Anyone seen this before on an Omega, have an example/examples ? It’s an Owl, the number 75 relates to the Paris Assay office, I’m currently trying to track down the Assay office of mine as my watch has an Owl with the number 44.

Flip · Dec 2, 2020

Any ideas Gents ? @mac_omega @Tom Dick @François Pépin as I’ve hit a brick wall. Any information from you or anyone else regards these Owl hallmarks on Omegas would be very much appreciated. Here’s a picture of the outer caseback, the tiny hallmark is in the centre, apologies for poor quality I do not have a macro camera. Under a loop you can see number 44 on the owl. Thanks

Tom Dick · Dec 2, 2020

New one on me, hopefully other members might chip in?

Flip · Dec 5, 2020

So, Erich kindly messaged me and confirmed he had not seen this Owl hallmark before either. We have concluded that the watch was imported into France so it is not a French case.
The 18k rose gold case is similar/identical to the 38mm 2609 reference but until I see inside it’s a guessing game
Next step, get the watch to a decent watchman to open up for further investigation 👍
Until then, has anybody else seen anything like this before?

Flip · Dec 5, 2020

In a way, it’s the French version of this ....

https://omegaforums.net/threads/lugs-with-portugal-dent.13003/

... the Owl hallmark would appear to relate to items of precious metal, not just an import mark like the Portuguese stamp

François Pépin · Dec 18, 2020

MasterMind
Hi there!
Recently I bought a "French cased" Omega Seamaster Calendar in solid 18k gold.

I tried to read something more about the whole deal with French cases but there is not much info about it on the Internet. I heard it was made this way because of tax evasion (it was cheaper to make gold cases in France than to import them from Switzerland).

I would like to know if a French case like this was made by some kind of Omega's subcontractors in France or in a different way - more privately by French jewelers? They have no reference numbers but some kind of serial numbers and old Omega logos inside caseback.

I also tried to verify who made it, read something about different markings but I haven't found any real answers. Was this knowledge about French manufacturers lost or someone here knows more about it?

Nice watch! The losanges hallmark refers to the case maker. JP made quite a lot of Omega’s French cases during that time. I agree they are very good quality gold cases, sometimes better than the Swiss ones.

François Pépin · Dec 18, 2020

Flip
Any ideas Gents ? @mac_omega @Tom Dick @François Pépin as I’ve hit a brick wall. Any information from you or anyone else regards these Owl hallmarks on Omegas would be very much appreciated. Here’s a picture of the outer caseback, the tiny hallmark is in the centre, apologies for poor quality I do not have a macro camera. Under a loop you can see number 44 on the owl. Thanks
View attachment 1113169

The owl hallmark refers to foreign and unknown origin gold produces. If there is a « \ » next to the owl, it indicates the gold contain is at least 75%. Your hallmark has not the / and clearly indicates it is rather 73%.

TimeODanaos · Dec 18, 2020

Does the excellently knowledgeable @François Pépin know this one, please?

TimeODanaos
First, congrats to the OP, and thanks for posting that beautiful piece.
May I please grab the opportunity to ask, is there a visual guide to the French casemakers' (equivalent to) poincons de maitre? I have posted a query elsewhere without success, but I get the impression you may have a lot of knowledge to share!

François Pépin · Dec 18, 2020

TimeODanaos
Does the excellently knowledgeable @François Pépin know this one, please?

Actually there is! But what I have found is not exhaustive. I will send you links to internet material tomorrow.

Flip · Dec 18, 2020

François Pépin
The owl hallmark refers to foreign and unknown origin gold produces. If there is a « \ » next to the owl, it indicates the gold contain is at least 75%. Your hallmark has not the / and clearly indicates it is rather 73%.

Interesting and thank you for this information, I shall pass that onto my French contract. I had read that the stamp confirmed the gold met the minimum French standard, assume that’s what you mean by 73% ?

François Pépin · Dec 18, 2020

Flip
Interesting and thank you for this information, I shall pass that onto my French contract. I had read that the stamp confirmed the gold met the minimum French standard, assume that’s what you mean by 73% ?

Sorry, I may have made a mistake. I saw a pic you posted with a 73 number, but now I understand it was not a pic of your watch - am I right? A hallmark with a / next to the howl means the gold content is at least of 75% (18 K). If there is no /, the gold content is at least of 50% (12 k).

Omega Seamaster Calendar - French case

MasterMind

SkunkPrince

MasterMind

PlainVanilla

Tom Dick

MasterMind

Tom Dick

MasterMind

TimeODanaos

Flip

Flip

Tom Dick

Flip

Flip

François Pépin

François Pépin

TimeODanaos

François Pépin

Flip

François Pépin

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