Omega Geneve 2754 Black Dial Cal 266

[johnk22]

Would this be considered a gilt dial? If so could that have anything to do with the precision of the accent?

 

[X350 XJR]

johnk22

Would this be considered a gilt dial? If so could that have anything to do with the precision of the accent?

A gilt dial would have more precision not less. I see a painted black dial with printed gold = refinish.

 

[LesXL]

johnk22

Would this be considered a gilt dial? If so could that have anything to do with the precision of the accent?

No, gilt is just gold "layer" (surely not the best choice of word) on the dial.
The branding, fonts and markers are not influenced by that.

I hear what the previous owner's answer was, he claims to have sold it on face value as an original one, because he was told so...

I believe what most of our experienced users are saying, is that it might look like a redial.

The question is for you to see if it bothers you. It is still a good looking watch with a good movement.

You need to factor if it needs service or not.

If so, the overall cost of the watch increases, and whether you can recuperate if you later decide to move on to another watch

If you like it, and the authenticity isn't such a big thing for you, then wear it in good health and enjoy it 😀

 

[johnk22]

Thanks you! Yes it definitely a nice looking watch. It is running nicely and keeping good time. I’m going to let the authenticity slide on this one and enjoy it as it is.

 

[SOG53]

2 50s era black dials with normal dial patina visible with closeup natural light, not so much on wrist.

 

[Davidt]

Look at the alignment of the hour and minute markers around 1, 2, 8, 10 and 11 o’clock.

100% a redial.

 

[MtV]

Davidt

Look at the alignment of the hour and minute markers around 1, 2, 8, 10 and 11 o’clock.

100% a redial.

+1, I don’t really have doubts. Look at the comparison, despite the low quality of the pictures the differences become apparent. The swirl at the left of the G, the e is rounder, the n in a different angle, the accent at a different position, etc etc. Black (top pic) is the OPs watch, bottom are two of the users’ watches:


Here’s a comparison to another one:

 

[JimInOz]

My white dial.
No reason a black dial should be much different.

 

[Davidt]

JimInOz

My white dial.
No reason a black dial should be much different.

Is that my old Geneve? Sharpest example I’ve ever seen. Really beautiful.

 

[JimInOz]

Davidt

Is that my old Geneve? Sharpest example I’ve ever seen. Really beautiful.

?

Not sure. PM me its history.

 

[MtV]

JimInOz

My white dial.
No reason a black dial should be much different.

Thank you, that picture makes it even more obvious:

 

[Tony C.]

A reminder:

It's not as simple as original or not. As mentioned in my initial post, there were some service dials manufactured for OMEGA, and they were not necessarily identical to the originals.

I do believe that the OP's example was refinished, but this one, which was linked previously, is, in my view, likely to be a service replacement:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/sold-omega-geneve-1st-generation-in-stainless-steel-ref-2754.107184/

So keep in mind that there are three possibilities:

original
(later) service dial
refinished

 

[Nico-]

Tony C.

A reminder:

It's not as simple as original or not. As mentioned in my initial post, there were some service dials manufactured for OMEGA, and they were not necessarily identical to the originals.

I do believe that the OP's example was refinished, but this one, which was linked previously, is, in my view, likely to be a service replacement:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/sold-omega-geneve-1st-generation-in-stainless-steel-ref-2754.107184/

So keep in mind that there are three possibilities:

original
(later) service dial
refinished

Regarding the watch you’re linking to. What are the arguments for you're thinking it's a later service dial. Just the condition of the watch dial relative to its age?

 

[Tony C.]

Nico-

Regarding the watch you’re linking to. What are the arguments for you're thinking it's a later service dial. Just the condition of the watch dial relative to its age?

Yes. For a watch of that age, I am very skeptical of a dial that clean, and especially a black dial, when the case and movement display signs of wear.

 

[Nico-]

Tony C.

Yes. For a watch of that age, I am very skeptical of a dial that clean, and especially a black dial, when the case and movement display signs of wear.

I agree that combination should always raise questions. But I’ve had and also have in the collection black dial watches with a pristine dial, which have been kept properly and where the watch case may have taken a little beating lying in an old warm drawer with tons of other stuff all forgotten. Also plenty of well kept original black dial examples on this forum 😀

Essentially with the linked watch you can’t really differentiate them besides a gut feeling or a coin flip. Since both would be original Omega, but nothing really gives it away if it’s a well preserved original or an original service dial that may have been changed to a couple of years later.

Or do you see other things worth pointing out dial wise?

 

[Tony C.]

Nico-

Essentially with the linked watch you can’t really differentiate them besides a gut feeling or a coin flip

No, that is incorrect. While I don't consider myself to be a pre-eminent expert in vintage Omega, I have likely handled and owned more early, vintage Geneve models than >99% of collectors.

With regard to the watch that we are debating, there is plenty of evidence that it was not simply "lying in an old warm drawer". There are marks and degradation to the movement that suggest clearly that the watch had been worn over periods of time.



The case back, under magnification, also shows plenty of signs of use:



There is also another, rather serious problem: the hands are not correct. They appear to be flat, and, more importantly, the minute hand extends well beyond the minute track. Early Geneve hands, when original, never extended beyond that track, at least to any notable degree.



So, given the clear evidence that the watch was neither a "safe queen", nor even original, and the dissonance between the nearly perfect apparent condition of the dial, and the condition of the case and movement, judging the dial to be a service (or NOS) replacement is neither a gut feeling, nor a "coin flip". It is a strong, evidence based conclusion, which puts the onus on those who disagree to either refute the above evidence, and/or to produce other, similarly dissonant examples that might be considered to be original.

In my experience, this is how original, early, black dial Geneve dials typically patinate. I have already posted that one that I owned, which is broadly consistent with these:









Note that there are some very well preserved silver dials on early Geneve examples, but I would argue that they typically mask the degradation associated with finishing lacquers much better than black dials. Note also that I find this to be true for many other brands and models, including, for example, the first generation ref. 666 IWC Ingenieurs.

Finally, feel free to share some good images of watches from your collection, if you believe that they will support your position.

Edited: Oct 11, 2023

 

[Nico-]

@Tony C. Thanks for the thoroughly reply, I was looking for the way to your conclusion 😀

About the hands do you see it as carved in stone, that they only came with a line bisecting them down the middle on the early Genève models? I’ve seen it being debated in threads here, but is there a clear conclusion on the hands.

https://omegaforums.net/threads/hands-on-manual-wind-geneve.47407/

 

[Tony C.]

Nico-

About the hands do you see it as carved in stone, that they only came with a line bisecting them down the middle on the early Genève models? I’ve seen it being debated in threads here, but is there a clear conclusion on the hands.

I suppose that is possible that the 9k UK versions featured flat hands, as gold content was an issue at the time in the UK. But I have a very difficult time believing that they were originally used on other models, as it would be so inconsistent with the careful design of the cases, and quality of the indices. The faceted hands are also featured in catalogues and adverts.

I also remain very skeptical of any minute hand that extends well beyond the minute track.