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OMTOM
·A ‘goliath’ pocket watch has been advertised on eBay – with the claim that it is a Marconi ‘Morse watch’.
Sadly there are several errors in the posting – but of most significance is the dial, the whole point of the watch, which in my opinion is not original and is a fairly recent replacement: it is a ‘replica’. I am not saying that the seller has introduced this fake dial: he may not be aware – but it is not original.
If the subject of Marconi ‘Morse watches’ is of interest, see a different thread which gives some history: ‘The story of the old ‘Morse’ and Marconi clocks and Goliath pocket watches’.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-story-of-the-old-‘morse’-and-marconi-clocks-and-goliath-pocket-watches.121716/
The advertised watch is (in my opinion) not original. Of relevance, in 2004 the Marconi Corporation presented an original of these watches to the History of Science Museum in Oxford, UK (this IS original!). Below is an image
which shows the two watches together:
Clearly there are similarities. However, of significance is that the Marconi watch (left) is inverted, has no bow and has the stem at the bottom – and the watch will probably have been mounted in a suitable stand for that purpose. This would be similar to pocket watches that were used in the early days of motoring (around 1905 – 1910) that were also inverted, with no bow but the stem at the bottom: they were mounted on a car’s dashboard and could be wound/set from below (an image of such a watch is below). Of course this watch has nothing to do with Marconi – it is shown only to illustrate a watch from this period which was intended (and mounted) for a purpose.
As we see, the eBay watch started life with the stem at the top – which is why it has a bow – and indeed the seller offers a leather-covered stand which would take the watch with the stem/bow at the top (and then this dial would be upside down!). In other words, a watch with a bow would be intended to have the bow/stem at the top (even attached to a chain): if intended to be ‘inverted’, with stem at the bottom, there would be no bow.
The separate thread referred to above which covers the Marconi story and ‘Morse watch’ in more detail, includes a link to a very interesting article by David Read. He incudes an image of an earlier ‘Morse watch’ (not Marconi) which dates to the period when the British Army (as we see, the Signals Branch of the Royal Engineers) had these special watches, which were intended to be mounted vertically, stem/bow at the top – presumably to be carried by a soldier. But this was how that watch was intended to be.
There are sadly other errors in the eBay posting.
· The seller claims that it is an “8‑day patent Omega pocket watch”. NO! There was no Omega patent for these Goliaths.
· The seller claims that the movement has 17 jewels – it has 15 jewels.
· The seller claims that there is a “limited supply of these watches”. In fact there are many to be had at any time: Omega made thousands and there were many other manufacturers (such as Doxa).
· The seller states that “a very similar watch is shown on page 425 of Pocket Watches, 19th and 20th Century by Shenton”. The watches on that page (and elsewhere in that book) do not relate to this watch. PM me if you would like a copy.
· The seller describes the leather-covered stand as being “rather worn”. In fact it has no easel and is falling apart: these stands (often with a sterling silver front and in good condition) are easy to come by.
· The case is made of Argentan, a nickel alloy with no silver content at all. The seller describes the case as being ‘silveroid’. The ‘colour’ of the case is give as silver. Argentan is similarly described sometimes as ‘German Silver’ (which is like a Dutch Uncle – not a real uncle, or Dutch gold – a copper-zinc alloy, no gold content) – it has no silver content. These terms might sound impressive – but they have no silver content.
· The crystal is not original.
As for true value (in my opinion), these ‘Goliath’ watches (with original and undamaged enamel dial) are to be found routinely for £200 - £300 – often with a stand, sometimes with a sterling silver front (of course more if you want to make a ‘Marconi’ dial). The seller is asking £1,895 – “because it is so rare”. It’s probably the only one in the world (but if it sells, there might well be more that are suddenly found!).
Sorry but this is NOT ALL THAT IT CLAIMS TO BE… At least he doesn’t describe it as art deco, or military – or ‘stunning’ (oh yes, he DOES!). As always, Caveat Emptor.
Sadly there are several errors in the posting – but of most significance is the dial, the whole point of the watch, which in my opinion is not original and is a fairly recent replacement: it is a ‘replica’. I am not saying that the seller has introduced this fake dial: he may not be aware – but it is not original.
If the subject of Marconi ‘Morse watches’ is of interest, see a different thread which gives some history: ‘The story of the old ‘Morse’ and Marconi clocks and Goliath pocket watches’.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-story-of-the-old-‘morse’-and-marconi-clocks-and-goliath-pocket-watches.121716/
The advertised watch is (in my opinion) not original. Of relevance, in 2004 the Marconi Corporation presented an original of these watches to the History of Science Museum in Oxford, UK (this IS original!). Below is an image
which shows the two watches together:
Clearly there are similarities. However, of significance is that the Marconi watch (left) is inverted, has no bow and has the stem at the bottom – and the watch will probably have been mounted in a suitable stand for that purpose. This would be similar to pocket watches that were used in the early days of motoring (around 1905 – 1910) that were also inverted, with no bow but the stem at the bottom: they were mounted on a car’s dashboard and could be wound/set from below (an image of such a watch is below). Of course this watch has nothing to do with Marconi – it is shown only to illustrate a watch from this period which was intended (and mounted) for a purpose.
As we see, the eBay watch started life with the stem at the top – which is why it has a bow – and indeed the seller offers a leather-covered stand which would take the watch with the stem/bow at the top (and then this dial would be upside down!). In other words, a watch with a bow would be intended to have the bow/stem at the top (even attached to a chain): if intended to be ‘inverted’, with stem at the bottom, there would be no bow.
The separate thread referred to above which covers the Marconi story and ‘Morse watch’ in more detail, includes a link to a very interesting article by David Read. He incudes an image of an earlier ‘Morse watch’ (not Marconi) which dates to the period when the British Army (as we see, the Signals Branch of the Royal Engineers) had these special watches, which were intended to be mounted vertically, stem/bow at the top – presumably to be carried by a soldier. But this was how that watch was intended to be.
There are sadly other errors in the eBay posting.
· The seller claims that it is an “8‑day patent Omega pocket watch”. NO! There was no Omega patent for these Goliaths.
· The seller claims that the movement has 17 jewels – it has 15 jewels.
· The seller claims that there is a “limited supply of these watches”. In fact there are many to be had at any time: Omega made thousands and there were many other manufacturers (such as Doxa).
· The seller states that “a very similar watch is shown on page 425 of Pocket Watches, 19th and 20th Century by Shenton”. The watches on that page (and elsewhere in that book) do not relate to this watch. PM me if you would like a copy.
· The seller describes the leather-covered stand as being “rather worn”. In fact it has no easel and is falling apart: these stands (often with a sterling silver front and in good condition) are easy to come by.
· The case is made of Argentan, a nickel alloy with no silver content at all. The seller describes the case as being ‘silveroid’. The ‘colour’ of the case is give as silver. Argentan is similarly described sometimes as ‘German Silver’ (which is like a Dutch Uncle – not a real uncle, or Dutch gold – a copper-zinc alloy, no gold content) – it has no silver content. These terms might sound impressive – but they have no silver content.
· The crystal is not original.
As for true value (in my opinion), these ‘Goliath’ watches (with original and undamaged enamel dial) are to be found routinely for £200 - £300 – often with a stand, sometimes with a sterling silver front (of course more if you want to make a ‘Marconi’ dial). The seller is asking £1,895 – “because it is so rare”. It’s probably the only one in the world (but if it sells, there might well be more that are suddenly found!).
Sorry but this is NOT ALL THAT IT CLAIMS TO BE… At least he doesn’t describe it as art deco, or military – or ‘stunning’ (oh yes, he DOES!). As always, Caveat Emptor.
Edited:
