Very few redials are anything other than poorly done imo, but obviously the relative quality of a redial can be subjective. To a collector most redials are poor. To a dealer selling them, most redials are expertly restored by an ex Omega employee. Generally what makes redials poor is that experienced collectors can easily tell them apart from the original. This is usually due to incorrect font, incorrectly sized font, letters/crosshairs being too thick, minute markers being unevenly spaced, subdial printing being off centre, 'T Swiss Made T' when the dial has no lume etc etc
That got a chuckle out of me. Thank you for that. I'm certainly neither an experienced collector or a shady dealer, just someone wanting to know what I'm getting. I would draw the line at anything disingenuous, it seems like redials can have a character of their own if you prefer to look on the positive, or are shameless mutilations of pure genius if you'd prefer to be pessimistic. I'm much more on the former for now. We'll see how that changes over time, I'm sure it will. This is something I have not yet seen mentioned. Do the Ts indicate lume? What is the correlation?
Radium was originally used as a luminous compound on wristwatches but gradually became phased out and replaced by tritium which isn't as dangerous by the early 60's. From 1962 (I think) dials had to have 'T' to show they had the safer material. Of course if the dial didn't have any glowing compound, the manufacturer wouldn't add the T, but many rediallersstick them on anyway.
This is another can of worms that can't quickly be explained. They put T on the dial for Tritium lume but there were exceptions. T Swiss T or Swiss T (sigh) etc etc etc. Something you need to read up on. Several threads here discussing this.
I think you’re going about this the right way. You’ve paid what is commonly referred to around here as the “Noob Tax” - I.e. bought a watch with some issues - but you didn’t spend much on it in the grand scheme of things and you’re on the forum looking to learn. It’s all a learning experience and it’s ok to buy some stuff, figure out what you like, make some mistakes, learn from others and just generally grow your appreciation and enjoyment of watches. My $0.02: Scroll through the WRUW thread, Instagram, the vintage forum, etc. and figure out what you like (and what your budget can handle). Research that stuff for awhile. Poke around the classifieds here, check out watchrecon.com and ebay and try and find what you’re after. Once you have, post a thread here and ask for a second set of eyes. That said, don’t start throwing up 5 threads a week asking people to dissect crappy examples for you - do your research beforehand and be patient. It often takes a long time to find what you’re looking for, even if you have the money to buy it. But it’s part of what makes the hobby fun - the thrill of the chase!
Thanks for your questions, I’ll follow this thread to read the answers and learn more myself. I’m no vintage expert either but with a bit of reading I can tell your #2 (T Swiss made T means there should be lume on the dial) and #3 (hands too long and mismatch the dial) are redials. A good redial in my novice opinion would be one where the hands’ length are correct, marking match the dial, overall all style is consistent (e.g. Art Deco, minimalist), proper spelling, a bit of patina (e.g. lume slightly yellowish, dial not shiny clean, micro scuffs on the case), hour markers are evenly spaced, and crosshair properly aligned and crossing the text. As for why redials are looked down it’s mainly because redialing is an art. You need to find parts that’re very close to the original or at least looks good and restore it. A lot of folks get it wrong.
As mentioned above by @Davidt, for common watches like the ones shown by the OP, there is really no such thing as a good redial. A redial on a watch like that, good or bad, reduces the collectibility to near zero.
Another thing that usually goes along with a redial is the seller overpolishing the case. On first glance it looks like you've found a New Old Stock 60's era Seamaster, but polishing typically starts to smooth over the nice crisp case edges and lug details that are part of the overall look of the watch. You'll see the difference as you look at some of the overpolished Ebay examples out there. So take your time, and compare what's out there.
1 thread for you to read ( three threads really ) https://omegaforums.net/threads/thr...w-to-the-forum-and-watches-should-read.86922/ 1 watch for inspiration This is great advice above All redials are a no for me
So would a rare example still be worth something even if it were redialed just on the grounds that it's rare? Would you be willing to stomach a redial for something that only comes up for sale in good condition a few times a year? I started looking recently and there's lots of incredible watches out there. A lot of them are out of my price range, especially the ones in near showroom condition, but I'm very quickly figuring out what's out there and what isn't. That's a really cool bit of information. Once you mentioned Radium I figured where you were going with it. That only applies to dials though, right? Could a watch without the Ts still have lume on the hands? Everyone mentions it strictly in relation to the dial. Absolutely gorgeous. I love the lug design and the clean overall look. What year is that from? Thank you for the additional reading. I'll go through it all this afternoon and start to digest it.
For truly rare watches, collectors will sometimes stomach a high quality redial. But the value is dramatically reduced compared to a decent original dial. Think 50% or so.
You can pick vintage watches up cheap. Swiss made watch for the price of a takeaway meal and a couple of beers $70 AUD found at a antique shop. http://www.woundforlife.com/2015/07/29/lessons-in-wristory-whats-a-nivada/
"Rare" doesn't mean they come up For sale a few times a year, it means one comes up for sale every few years. In this instance necessity dictates that a redial is more acceptable but it still has a large impact on value and is undesirable. There's just a lack of alternatives.
When it comes to redials/refinishes, I'd make a couple of points that may go against the more widely held views that the majority here seem to espouse. Not all redials are the work of crazed, sharpy-wielding, ham fisted scam artists out to rip off dupes and piss off "collectors". Looking at some of the pieces in the OP's post, I'd say there was a fair bit of skill and craft employed and without having seen the original condition of the watches in question, it's even possible to speculate that the refinishers may have saved these watches from the scrapheap. As for redials "killing the value" of a watch, I'd suggest that the market would say otherwise. If these redialled watches did not sell, then nobody would redial them. To do a passable job takes some degree of skill and access to suitable materials. This costs money (even in Mumbai ). As for the general view that somehow original, but degraded and damaged patinated watches should attract a premium, I'm willing to bet that if you asked 100 members of the watch owning public which watch they would rather wear, most would go for a good redial than the patinated version. And if you said they should pay more for the patinated version, they'd probably think you were a little deluded. I realise that this forum is heavily biased towards the collector mindset, but let's not be blind towards the wider watch buying and wearing community out there. Just because some would prefer a clean redial to a patinated original does not automatically make them less appreciative or sophisticated. They are not all dupes or have been seduced by Mad Men. They may have made a conscious choice based on their research and their personal motivations. It would be a boring world if we all succumbed to groupthink and unquestioning orthodoxy.
I don't think anyone is trying to criticize non-collectors who are happy to buy a refinished watch. I have the impression that the OP is trying to learn how collectors view the condition of watches, including redials, and to understand how that connects to collectible value.
So you're telling me somebody in the knife world stole my OF name and decided to use the firstname Nick?
Vintage watches to avoid: Anything with a base metal bezel that is then plated, be it chrome, gold, whatever. Gold capped over stainless can be OK, virtually everything else - not so much. Brassing looks crummy and can't generally be fixed acceptably.
I think this statement will be criminally underrated. If we look at me for example, I managed to get a vintage Omega with a bit of patina (I was looking for it) for basically dirt cheap because it was redialed. Was it as bad as some of the Worst Redials posted around here? No. Was it 100% as good of a job as factory? Also no. But that's totally OK because it got a legitimate Omega, with tons of rich history, into the hands of an enthusiast that wouldn't have otherwise been able to afford the most collectible piece. It's not a $20,000 tropical dial Subbie and it doesn't need to be.