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New acquisition, can I get the thoughts of the experts?

jimmyd13
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I made an impulse buy today. Something that I saw in an auction at pretty much the last minute so I couldn't inspect it. Instead, I spoke to a very helpful young lady at the auction house - she didn't know much about watches at all, but she had the piece in hand and could answer all my questions. I found myself in a bit of a bidding battle but bought well within my comfort zone.

Anyway, it's gorgeous. What I can't decide is whether or not it's been intimate with a polishing wheel. There's a hole in one of the lugs that I didn't know about. It's not too terrible and I'm tempted to leave it rather than look into a repair. As far as I can tell, it's as original as it could be ... so I'm throwing it open to those of you more experienced to tell me if I've missed anything?

I realise the bracelet is later (though not much) and I intend to take it off that bracelet and have a strap made for her. I've already had one offer to buy it and I've not owned it for 10 hours yet!

Over to you all ...
IMAG0754.jpg IMAG0755.jpg IMAG0757.jpg IMAG0758.jpg IMAG0759.jpg IMAG0761.jpg IMAG0762.jpg
 
T
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Can you share more details about the watch, partial serial/year of production. Looks like a great timepiece with no major replacements, love the dial/hands.
Pics are not the best to tell if it has been intimate with a polish wheel but based on a couple of pics, there is evidence of a polished... So what?
These are great watches and have a time for wearing as do others.. I have one in my collection and wear in a rotation..
If it is a catch and release, so be it, but if the price was right, you can't go wrong to hold on and enjoy!
 
jimmyd13
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T TTG
If it is a catch and release, so be it, but if the price was right, you can't go wrong to hold on and enjoy!
The bracelet's going to be a catch and release - it's not correct to the watch and someone will be able to make much better use of it (it's in great condition, save a few scratches on the clasp) - but I think the watch may be a catch and gift.
 
jimmyd13
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T TTG
Can you share more details about the watch, partial serial/year of production.
It's a 2280; serial's 142886 and it has an engraving on the caseback from 1951 - I think it's a few years earlier than that. I've not got the correct tool to remove the caseback so any other numbers will have to wait.
 
T
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Very interesting..
The Rolex 2280 was in the bubbleback range. Wondering if the serial was during the renumbering time dating it to the later 1950s...
 
jimmyd13
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T TTG
Very interesting..
The Rolex 2280 was in the bubbleback range. Wondering if the serial was during the renumbering time dating it to the later 1950s...
The "very interesting" was exactly my thought and the reason I made the buy.

I'm reading everything I can on the range right now (and have been for hours). I've not found the same dial yet. I doubt it's later 50s because of the inscription but that serial number would put us around 1942. Of course, it's entirely possible that the completed watch sat somewhere for a few years waiting to be shipped and sold. There was a little spat going on around that time which hindered the free movement of goods around Europe.

Anyway ... back to my reading. Chime in everyone!
 
T
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I think you are right about not finding the same dial but it is because as you say - you are going based on the inscription.
I think it is a later 50's dial/hands.
The caseback may not belong with this watch or the dial/hands were placed/fitted on this earlier model...
Did you check for reference numbers between the lugs? Also, when you open it, get the ref of the movement and that may help narrow down the period..
Edited:
 
jimmyd13
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I think you are right about not finding the same dial but it is because as you say - you are going based on the inscription.
I think it is a later 50's dial/hands.
The caseback may not belong with this watch or the dial/hands were placed/fitted on this earlier model...
Did you check for reference numbers between the lugs? Also, when you open it, get the ref of the movement and that may help narrow down the period..
There are no numbers between the lugs on this one. Obviously, something I couldn't check before purchase. The case back may have to wait a while before its opened because I've just bought a few more pieces today .... I'll post them later but suffice to say, I couldn't be happier to spend so much money.
 
T
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Ok, thanks.
I am seeing similar dial/hands in the 64xx model series, such as the 6418, 6421, 6430..
Curious to see what you come up with on this one...
CHEERS and Happy Hunting!
 
jimmyd13
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Well, I got home early today and curiosity got the better of me so I took found a ball and took the back off .... only to be more confused than ever. I can't identify the movement at all. What I can tell you is that there are at least eight service marks inside the back but, while I can find movements that are similar, I can't work out what this one is nor can I see any numbers.

Can you folks help me out?

IMAG0754.jpg IMAG0799.jpg IMAG0802.jpg IMAG0803.jpg IMAG0803a.jpg IMAG0807.jpg
 
jimmyd13
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FINALLY! I've found two similar examples, both called a 2280 "Royal" and both from 1939. This is starting to look like it's correct!

I can't "borrow" photos from this website but here's a 2280 "Royal" with similar case and the same movement: https://www.poshtime.com/3025.044/Rolex-Oyster-Royal-c.1939.php

So, what I'm trying to find out is when this type of dial was first used (the "Speedking" one). Either this is an all original 1942 bubbleback speedking ... or it's a "Royal" with a replaced dial and hands.
Edited:
 
T
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Do some research on the Rolex 700 caliber movement..
That may be your answer..
 
jimmyd13
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Do some research on the Rolex 700 caliber movement..
That may be your answer..
OK ... I'm going to delve deeper into the 700 but the ones I've found already have a different bridge shape and predominantly have sub seconds.
 
T
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Also, as described in the link you posted, the movement is referred as 10.5 manual wind movement.

In answer to your question re: So, what I'm trying to find out is when this type of dial was first used (the "Speedking" one). Either this is an all original 1942 bubbleback speedking ... or it's a "Royal" with a replaced dial and hands.

I am almost sure you have a case/movement for a 1940s 2280 bubble back and a later 1950s Oyster Speedking Precision dial..
 
jimmyd13
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T TTG
Also, as described in the link you posted, the movement is referred as 10.5 manual wind movement.

In answer to your question re: So, what I'm trying to find out is when this type of dial was first used (the "Speedking" one). Either this is an all original 1942 bubbleback speedking ... or it's a "Royal" with a replaced dial and hands.

I am almost sure you have a case/movement for a 1940s 2280 bubble back and a later 1950s Oyster Speedking Precision dial..
That would be such a disappointment but the price I pay for impulse buys!
 
jimmyd13
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Cross your fingers @TTG - I'm in an email conversation with a Rolex collector in Australia who has a very similar piece .... waiting for a serial number check!
 
T
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jimmyd13 jimmyd13
Cross your fingers @TTG - I'm in an email conversation with a Rolex collector in Australia who has a very similar piece .... waiting for a serial number check!

Good to hear. A thread was started this morning on TRF from a member with a similar inquiry as yours - 1940s case and dial also similar as yours but with an underline. The case is numbered 292xxx. I can keep you updated or you can see the thread here:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=543013
 
jimmyd13
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As requested, straight on photos of the dial - taken with two cameras on three different settings to give as much detail as I can:

IMAG0808.jpg IMAG0811.jpg IMG_20170613_1347175.jpg


If there's something in particular you need to focus on, let me know and I'll see if I can't get a close up of any particular area.
 
T
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I shared your picture and was informed the same speculation that it is indeed a later dial.
I was also pointed to the inner lune plots, which does not appear to be original..
 
jimmyd13
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Thanks for doing that, @TTG - when I started to look closely I thought the same, though both lume plots (top and bottom of each indici) appear remarkably consistent under a loupe.

What I'm getting from two other sources is that the dial is correct, though.

As I see it, there are two ways to go here: 1 is I keep it, have it serviced and see if we find out anything during service; 2 is that I sell it on and inform the buyer that the dial may be later. As I really should free up some cash, the 2nd is most likely.

Thank you for you time and your input, it is appreciated.
 
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