Need some advise on a blue dial DeVille

[Tako Yaki]

Hi there,

need some advise on a blue dial DeVille.
real? Fake?
If real, about time of production would be interesting!
Worth to buy for repair/ov or better I ask for how much they go usually.

I did some search on the net, haven’t found this model with blue dial, the back I am also uncertain about the Tunnel for the crown ... tool 104 ?
Is it an manual wind, auto or quartz ?

thank You very much for input!

greetings

 

[kaplan]

Hello fellow Japan auction hunter 😀

At this price just avoid this watch, The COSMIC / Tool 104/107 etc. watches are cancer - their crystals break easily when being removed, you can't access the movement yourself, you need an expert to remove / re-install the crystal, you could push air inside etc. - but it requires you to force pull the crown etc.

All in all, it's too expensive for too much trouble - The dial doesn't matter actually, since because of this complication, I don't think these watches are much in demand - It probably has a small handwind movement inside, I'd guess 625, but I have no idea, maybe it has an 600 series larger handwind movement, as I don't know how the unique latch type stem would work with a small 625 movement

 

[kaplan]

This actually reminded me of my ladies De Ville: https://omegaforums.net/threads/guys-is-this-watch-too-big-for-my-wrist.121323/ - loved the white hands on that one, this has the same hands too

I'd suspect the movement inside is okay, you'll probably just need to find a new crystal and get it pressed onto the watch and it will be good to go - but the price to be honest, is on the edge

 

[Tako Yaki]

Thanks for Your answers!

So Tool 104/107 are the crystal-lifter?

 

[kaplan]

Yes, did you get the watch by the way?

I guess it's prob. not a re-dial since there are more of them: https://www.catawiki.com/l/33684113-omega-deville-tool-104-blue-dial-men-1970-1979

And with some research, it indeed has an 625 movement, which is a beautiful small movement that is cheap and reliable, you can easily buy a new one

I couldn't find the model number tho, probably because no one has the balls to open one of these and look for the number

 

[onlyomega94]

kaplan

Hello fellow Japan auction hunter 😀

At this price just avoid this watch, The COSMIC / Tool 104/107 etc. watches are cancer - their crystals break easily when being removed, you can't access the movement yourself, you need an expert to remove / re-install the crystal, you could push air inside etc. - but it requires you to force pull the crown etc.

All in all, it's too expensive for too much trouble - The dial doesn't matter actually, since because of this complication, I don't think these watches are much in demand - It probably has a small handwind movement inside, I'd guess 625, but I have no idea, maybe it has an 600 series larger handwind movement, as I don't know how the unique latch type stem would work with a small 625 movement

I don't necessarily agree. This is exactly the condition I like to find my watches in. I of course don't know the price of this but if the OP likes it I see no red flags. Dial is original IMO and there is no need to replace that crystal - some polywatch and that would be good to go. Tool 104 is the crystal lift tool, but any ol crystal lift will work - and this is an easy job for a watchmaker should the watch need a service. I too would suspect a small 600 series movement. In total, it depends on price but if you like it I would go for it.

 

[kaplan]

Maybe I'm bad at polywatch but will those deep scratches hold?

Probably better to use UV resin instead 😁

 

[Tako Yaki]

Hi,

thank You very much!

No, I did not get it!
My limit was a bit lower, due to the uncertainty! of what is waiting inside!
it went for ¥26.000 around $250 or €208.
Thanks again!

onlyomega94:
The polishing of the crystal, case finishing I didn’t worry about, as I can do it by myself. Just the inside, as I am not a watchmaker.

Kaplan:
Yes, I am often at yahoo. jp as I live in Japan.


https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/o450004754

 

[kaplan]

Bottom of the watch also has what looks like it could be a crack, if the crystal is cracked, it might not make a re-entry or even removal

I had a cosmic Seamaster with a cracked crystal, I was able to remove the crystal with a chinese tool, fix the basic issue with it, then re-install the crystal by hand, with a lot of pressing work, and then, reinforce the crack with some uv resin, it looked great and resin probably made it waterproof too - but never again, now whenever I see a crystal locked watch, I run away

Selling my 56 KS for this reason too, I just don't want crystal locked watches

Tako Yaki, you can certainly do better and I don't think the price of the same watch in better condition can exceed $300 - this was too expensive at $260 - since you are in Japan, you could just get an 625 movement for $25 from a junk Ladies Omega, the movements inside are usually pristine

Oh how I wish I was in Japan these days, the land of the Omega's 😁

 

[onlyomega94]

kaplan

Maybe I'm bad at polywatch but will those deep scratches hold?

Probably better to use UV resin instead 😁

If not polywatch then some sandpaper and Brasso will.
At 208 euro (assuming that this was an eBay listing and there are no auction fees) I personally believe this was an ok price. Good luck in your hunt OP.

 

[Tako Yaki]

Hi kaplan,

I am not a Professional watchmaker.
But many years professionally developing surface finishes at a different industry.
I personally don’t use Politop,
I use a slow lathe and different Polishing wheels and pastes.
But I would not recommend that for someone who is not used to work with such a Maschine, as it develops heat to the crystal.

If professional watchmakers use politop, it should be the proper medium to do it!
They will know their trade!

Yes, if scratches are deep, a wet type fine to very fine sandpaper file would be for me the way to start, like car paint shops use, before polishing the paint!.

Edited: Jan 10, 2021

 

[Tako Yaki]

kaplan

Oh how I wish I was in Japan these days, the land of the Omega'

Yes, it could be a fulltime job to go through all these listings online...
LOL!

 

[Archer]

kaplan

At this price just avoid this watch, The COSMIC / Tool 104/107 etc. watches are cancer - their crystals break easily when being removed, you can't access the movement yourself, you need an expert to remove / re-install the crystal, you could push air inside etc. - but it requires you to force pull the crown etc.

Not sure if you ar speaking from experience or not, but I work on these sorts of cases often, and they are not a problem typically. If you have the right tools and know what you are doing, they are easy to work on.

 

[kaplan]

I speak from inexperience 😀

@Tako Yaki While I have you on the line, do you know anything about fake bids on Yahoo Auctions, is it a common practice, is it known?

For example this seller always lists pristine looking watches, week after week, they reach more than 2X the market value somehow: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t777113189 (seller is this seller, but the watch was a 168.029, I've seen it 10 times, week after week, it reached $2000 - unseen for such a watch without a bracelet in Japan)

I've seen many other cases where the bids were just unbelievable

 

[kaplan]

By the way, as I'm a programmer, I have a script that goes through all the listings for me, otherwise it would've been impossible There are just so many of them and the filters just are not much help

 

[Tako Yaki]

kaplan

@Tako Yaki While I have you on the line, do you know anything about fake bids on Yahoo Auctions, is it a common practice, is it known?

I do have the same feeling sometimes, that there are some „professionals“ at work!
Same than on eBay or Craigslist, ect

Though, there seem to be some „shops“ who do all too good in a sale, and than after a while the same product is back in auction from the same seller. Or even from a different seller but using the same pictures than the seller before!
„friends“ who just want to help to raise customers excitement (and sellers numbers)?!
Lol!

Generally, Japanese are very nice people, but sure like in every other country also, there are some bad ones!
But, cause most people are so nice here, it makes me feel safe! So when you encounter a bad one, it hits you hard, cause you not expect it!
At least that is my experience!

Like on eBay, ect. also;
Have to check the seller very well!

But You will know that better than me,
I am quite new in that „game“!

My feeling is also, Japanese people (customers) mostly do not complain about bad experience, at least not open! So have to read the customers response very well!

I am not Japanese, my Japanese isn’t too good, that makes it difficult!

best of luck!

Edited: Jan 10, 2021

 

[mountainunder]

I'm Japanese, and I often use Yahoo Auctions.

In this auction, there are several bidders with new ratings (0 ratings) in the bidding history, so I think they are using shill bidding to raise the bidding price.

Shill bidding is common not only in Yahoo auctions but also on eBay!?

In recent Yahoo auctions, auctions are often cancelled just before the end of the auction if the seller's desired bid price is not reached.

 

[Tako Yaki]

hi mountainunder-san,

yes that is also my feeling, they might not work „correctly“!

also December/January prices are often higher in Japan, cause people got their bonus and Kids „Otoshidama“ !
Even Motorcycle prices rises in Dec/Jan in Japan, opposite to Europe, where it’s cheaper in winter to buy a bike!

Mid of the year, prices are also getting up regularly!
It’s also a time when big companies pay a bonus to the salarymen, people have some money to spend!

Edited: Jan 10, 2021

 

[kaplan]

Thanks a lot for the very useful information, I don't think anyone uses eBay like Yahoo Auctions honestly, because while there are 100 good auctions a day on Yahoo auctions, it's like 5/week for eBay, so I assume most people just don't bother, and funnily, the end prices of these few auctions are even lower than Japan - A 1040 bracelet with 518 endlinks in almost NOS condition sold for $225 for example, heavily used ones on Japan are $250+ - so TL;DR: eBay isn't really worth most people time to browse and cheat

For Yahoo Auctions, we also don't know if the sellers are even Japanese, could be outsider traders, there are also overseas sellers too, I also think the seller I linked, might even be doing a good thing, he always cancels the listing, so maybe he's demonstrating to people how easily they can be cheated 😁

One takeaway, as an outsider, there's no way to detect "shill bidding" - since I don't have a Yahoo JP account and use proxy services, I can't see feedback of bidders 🙁

But honestly, I probably bought 40 things from Yahoo Auctions up until now, only one of them upset me, and that was on me, I usually get pleasantly suprised as items/watches are underrepresented, usually what you get is better than what you see 😁