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Speedy Tuesday – A Blue Dial Speedmaster 105.003 On Auction

  1. Robert-Jan #SpeedyTuesday Nov 6, 2018

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    [​IMG]
    We’ve reported on a blue dial Speedmaster 105.012 and a blue dial Speedmaster 145.012 before in our Speedy Tuesday features, but never on an earlier reference with this dial colour. These dials are still a bit of a vague territory, at least for us, as no one exactly know how many of these watches are […]

    Visit Speedy Tuesday – A Blue Dial Speedmaster 105.003 On Auction to read the full article.
     
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  2. Gefa Nov 6, 2018

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    .... cool :thumbsup:
     
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  3. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Nov 6, 2018

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    "
    Production Year
    So basically, what happened, is that once the payment was received from Mexico, Omega filled in the ‘Production Date’ field with that particular date. In short, the watch was sold in Mexico in May 1964 to the end customer, but Omega received the payment for this watch (and the entire batch of watches) on September 11th, 1964. A very accommodating payment condition I would say. Thanks to Omega in Bienne for clearing this one up. The serial number is shown on the warranty booklet and would actually indicate 1963 as production year.
    "

    ...oh boy...::popcorn::
     
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  4. Robert-Jan #SpeedyTuesday Nov 6, 2018

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    What about it?
     
  5. Georgieboy58 Nov 6, 2018

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    For me this explanation doesn't pass Oggham's razor.
    And is the extract recent or one of the old ones as it mentions the dial colour?
     
  6. Robert-Jan #SpeedyTuesday Nov 6, 2018

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    This is the official statement from Omega and I have no real reason to doubt it. I haven't seen a 2nd extract for this same watch with different dates on there. The information on this extract comes from their books (the paper ones) in which they kept a record of watches shipped and sold. I really don't see the issue here, as (only) the production date of the movement is known at Omega and is before May 1964. I don't believe in conspiracy theories anyway ;-)
     
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  7. JimJupiter Nov 6, 2018

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    Interesting that I couldn't get an extract for my 105.003 -63, but they confirmed that it was delivered to Germany, November 2nd, 1964.
    My Serial is 20.522.160 so 264 numbers BEFORE the blue one Phillips is selling.

    Nico

    omega.JPG
     
  8. SpeedyPhill Founder Of Aussie Cricket Blog Mark Waugh Universe Nov 6, 2018

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    .
    Looks like a post-2016 Extract of Archives, as Stephen Urquhart only signed with a little doodle/scribble ...
    Anyway an amazing dial on this 105.003-63 !
     
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  9. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Nov 6, 2018

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    Please don't get me wrong, not trying to start some evil mass-debate (nasty pun that), merely this jumped to mind when reading the official explanation for the mismatched papers :

    https://omegaforums.net/threads/phillips-speedmasters.83699/

    Interesting chat about this one in particular in the thread above I am sure you saw, and the pre-dated papers/extract. If 'production date' = 'money received for watch date' I can imagine a lot of folks wont be too happy, as that raises many questions on the whole 'production date - extract process' (already raised with the Ultraman thing), as most certainly most folks are more interested in when their watches were produced vs when their watches were paid for...
     
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  10. Robert-Jan #SpeedyTuesday Nov 6, 2018

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    So they only recorded the delivery date (which might equal payment date) as they had no record on anything else. The fact that the watch is 264 numbers before the blue one doesn't say much. Movement batches were registered per 10 and the production date of a movement can be far-far away from the production date (or delivery date) of an entire watch. Did you reach out to the archives to see what the production date of the movement is?
     
  11. JimJupiter Nov 6, 2018

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    Of course not, seems like as a pivate person they dont provide these information. It was hard enough to get anything from them when they canceled the exctract ;)

    What I don't understand is that until now every research of SN and databases like ilovemyspeedmaster worked on the basis that the chronological order of the serials matches the chronology of the delivery / production date. Or did I missed something?

    Nico
     
  12. Robert-Jan #SpeedyTuesday Nov 6, 2018

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    Actually, I didn't read it, I can't spend as much time on forums as I used to. I just reached out to Omega directly and asked them about these two awkward dates. I have no reason to doubt their explanation.
     
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  13. eugeneandresson 'I used a hammer, a chisel, and my fingers' Nov 6, 2018

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    No problem. Some of our hawk-eyed members pointed out that the papers/booklet were from the -69 era :thumbsup:
     
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  14. Robert-Jan #SpeedyTuesday Nov 6, 2018

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    I can't speak for other's peoples work ;-) However, when I asked them about the serial numbers, they repeatedly told me that many of the lists out there are wrong. You need to really check per watch. The lists do give some sort of indication, but if you want to know exactly, you need to ask them.

    As a private person you can contact the museum and archive department. Have you tried?
     
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  15. Robert-Jan #SpeedyTuesday Nov 6, 2018

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    Interesting. But I only tend to believe these things once they have been confirmed. That also still makes the payment date the one that has been written into the old books. If the booklet has been tampered with, it will become a mess to sort out who's to blame and what the impact on the price might be.
     
  16. Om3ga321 Nov 6, 2018

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    Now let me find my drawer full of cash to bid on this one.
     
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  17. JanV Nov 7, 2018

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    The booklet looks also “too new” for me, it looks like a -69/-70 warranty booklet. There is a date of print found on page 26, what does this say? Here are a few examples below.
     
    28DDB684-BD09-4A53-ABC8-395856644BB4.jpeg EAE88E8D-3F29-4056-8A67-95199BE85FDF.jpeg
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  18. DLT222 Double D @ ΩF Staff Member Nov 10, 2018

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    I can categorically tell you that the papers did not come from this watch, I also know that the chrono hand and the bezel have been changed before the auction which never saw it selling?

    How do I know this you ask? Well that's simple, I know the owner of it before he sold it to the present owner who put it in for auction. I also have photos of the watch before he sold it, he says it never had papers at all they have been added at a later date!

    Phillips even threatened the guy with legal action!

    You do the maths!
     
    Edited Nov 10, 2018
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  19. Fost Nov 10, 2018

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    Holly s....
     
  20. bloomy Nov 10, 2018

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    Yikes.
     
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