My father's Cartier watch

JwRosenthal · Jul 26, 2021

My father died without having his will finalized at age 63. We worked out an arrangement with his new wife (who was legally entitled to everything without a will) where she got to keep the property, art and tangible assets (other than a few family pieces of furniture which we asked for), and we got half of his investments (she kept the other half).
He had set up a trust and new will with his lawyer in the weeks prior to his death, while in the hospital, and his new wife didn’t deliver the signed paperwork to the lawyers (magically missing).
In the end, coming to that compromise worked out for everyone with the least amount of mess- she went her way and we went ours, and frankly- she was kind in making it that hassle free.
If you can start a dialogue of what a happy comprise would be with your fathers wife- it may be a way to keep things peaceful and avoid the lawyers getting the lions share.

kkt · Jul 26, 2021

I am not a lawyer and while I've been executor a couple of times I'm glad to report they were not contentious. I'd suggest seeing a lawyer first, to find out if you have any case at all at this point. With no properly signed will, what happens can vary from one state to another.

Also think about what you really want. Are you just looking for some personal items? Or would you be willing to fight for full rights as an heir? Keeping in mind that the other heirs might settle pretty easily for items that primarily sentimental value, but if both sides dig in and fight it out the only real winners will be the lawyers.

Seeing a lawyer for 30 minutes to an hour should be relatively affordable, and long enough to clarify what the case would involve and let the lawyer lay out your options for you.

Yes, this is a lesson to everyone to make sure your will and trust is property signed and in order and has been updated if there's been any changes. It can save your heirs a lot of money if it's clear what to do without a legal fight, and it can save them a big fight with each other just when they need to be a comfort to each other. My grandfather and his younger half-brother had a falling out that they never got over - not over the financial value of the stepmother's estate, but over a pair of family paintings. The stepmother apparently promised them to both brothers, and her will was silent on the question of who should get them.

Shabbaz · Jul 26, 2021

Waltesefalcon
I'm certainly not disagreeing with you as I'm no legal expert, but could you elaborate?

I often tell my clients that having your rights does not always lead to getting your rights. The lawyer's fees are often so high that conducting legal proceedings does not lead to an acceptable solution to the dispute.
In addition, people often underestimate what a procedure entails in terms of emotions and tension. These are all considerations that can lead to the decision not to initiate proceedings.

krogerfoot · Jul 26, 2021

Evitzee
You said you consulted with a lawyer in Texas (where he died) and got an opinion on what portion of your dad's assets would flow to you under the law. But he has died over a year ago so every day that goes by your ability to get your portion of his estate gets harder and harder. If you just want to vent about the situation then do so, but if you want to proceed to make your legal (financial) claim you need to get off the dime and start the process. Yes, legal help costs money but the estate doesn't have to be that large to make it financially viable. If I was you I'd start the process now, every day lost will never be recovered. It sounds like the widow doesn't want to play ball so hire your own legal help. Don't dither about this, time is of the essence.

In fact, this was a point I asked about. Apparently my claim doesn't go away with time, although if for example my father's widow manages to liquify and spend his entire estate, there will be nothing to recover. The deadline for her lawyers to file an inventory with the state was January of this year, but they were granted a year's extension (which is apparently routine). That inventory is a necessary step of going through probate, so even if I had hired a lawyer a year ago, we'd likely still be cooling our heels now while this inventory was being conducted.

krogerfoot · Jul 26, 2021

kkt
Also think about what you really want. Are you just looking for some personal items? Or would you be willing to fight for full rights as an heir? Keeping in mind that the other heirs might settle pretty easily for items that primarily sentimental value, but if both sides dig in and fight it out the only real winners will be the lawyers.

The odd thing (to me) in this case is that in Texas at least, my father's heirs are me and his wife. My brother irrevocably signed away his rights to a claim. The wife's children are not natural heirs, so that just leaves me. I was surprised that Texas law is actually tilted away from the spouse to the tune of one-third for her and two-thirds for us.

Donn Chambers · Jul 26, 2021

krogerfoot
The odd thing (to me) in this case is that in Texas at least, my father's heirs are me and his wife. My brother irrevocably signed away his rights to a claim. The wife's children are not natural heirs, so that just leaves me. I was surprised that Texas law is actually tilted away from the spouse to the tune of one-third for her and two-thirds for us.

My mother-in-law and wife both practiced law in Texas for years, and I asked them about this. They never directly dealt with probate law, but they did a little quick research and found this website which they said looked correct based on their memory:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/intestate-succession-texas.html

based on that, it’s not a simple 1/3, 2/3 split. Looks like that is only for your father’s private property. For community property, it’s a 50/50 split AND your step-mother must be allowed to use any real estate until she dies.

Good luck.

krogerfoot · Jul 26, 2021

JwRosenthal
My father died without having his will finalized at age 63. We worked out an arrangement with his new wife (who was legally entitled to everything without a will) where she got to keep the property, art and tangible assets (other than a few family pieces of furniture which we asked for), and we got half of his investments (she kept the other half).
He had set up a trust and new will with his lawyer in the weeks prior to his death, while in the hospital, and his new wife didn’t deliver the signed paperwork to the lawyers (magically missing).
In the end, coming to that compromise worked out for everyone with the least amount of mess- she went her way and we went ours, and frankly- she was kind in making it that hassle free.
If you can start a dialogue of what a happy comprise would be with your fathers wife- it may be a way to keep things peaceful and avoid the lawyers getting the lions share.

This is the kind of advice I'd usually give and follow. In this case, I have no familial relationship with the widow (we never lived in the same household, so "stepmother" just feels odd, but it's not meant to be petty [I think]) or her three children, all adults (two married). My brother and I conveyed to my dad's wife that she should do as she sees fit with funeral planning and whatnot, that we weren't going to be backseat drivers while she dealt with this. In the end, she really took that ball and ran with it—my thread on Twitter describes in detail how that went. Since then, the only contact I've had with her is a series of frantic 2AM calls about a year ago, pleading with me to sign the disclaimer to disavow my claims on the estate.

I do understand that she was distraught about the sudden loss of her husband and it's easy to believe 1) she truly thought the only assets would come from selling their houses to pay off the mortgages and 2) that her lawyer was behind the aggressiveness of the demands put on me and my brother.

Still, it's been a year. I signed a waiver of independent administration allowing her to sell the house and make insurance claims and so forth. It's her (lawyer's) duty to report the contents of my dad's estate, and all I know about that is what she told me (nothing there but a mountain of debts) and what her lawyer finally told me when I tracked him down (about $1.5 million scooters).

Maybe my dad's widow will surprise me and make a generous offer. From what I understand, it seems like she should be asking me to be generous with her, given the 1/3 vs 2/3 thing. At any rate, if she had wanted to talk to me about it, there have been no lack of opportunities to do so over the past year.

krogerfoot · Jul 26, 2021

Donn Chambers
My mother-in-law and wife both practiced law in Texas for years, and I asked them about this. They never directly dealt with probate law, but they did a little quick research and found this website which they said looked correct based on their memory:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/intestate-succession-texas.html

based on that, it’s not a simple 1/3, 2/3 split. Looks like that is only for your father’s private property. For community property, it’s a 50/50 split AND your step-mother must be allowed to use any real estate until she dies.

Good luck.

Thank you. That's my understanding, too—community property is, broadly, anything they bought during the marriage, and the 1/3-2/3 split is for "life estate," basically whatever my father brought into the marriage. Since the widow already sold their houses, I'm not sure how this affects her claim on real estate. (I do know the preliminary inventory submitted in January claimed that a $870K house with a grand piano just past the foyer had only $3,000 worth of furnishings in it.)

krogerfoot · Jul 26, 2021

Dan S
This makes me really sad. I wish your brother had held onto them long enough for you to at least put dibs on the ones you might have wanted to keep.

Makes me sad, too. It's another chapter in a really long book with my brother.

kkt · Jul 26, 2021

krogerfoot
The odd thing (to me) in this case is that in Texas at least, my father's heirs are me and his wife. My brother irrevocably signed away his rights to a claim. The wife's children are not natural heirs, so that just leaves me. I was surprised that Texas law is actually tilted away from the spouse to the tune of one-third for her and two-thirds for us.

That's interesting. If you see a lawyer, one thing I'd ask the lawer is whether your brother's signing away his rights is really binding.

I had the impression that if an heir didn't want the legacy, their option was to accept it and then give it away to another person or charity. Of course that wasn't in Texas, so feel free to ignore.

Waltesefalcon · Jul 26, 2021

Shabbaz
I often tell my clients that having your rights does not always lead to getting your rights. The lawyer's fees are often so high that conducting legal proceedings does not lead to an acceptable solution to the dispute.
In addition, people often underestimate what a procedure entails in terms of emotions and tension. These are all considerations that can lead to the decision not to initiate proceedings.

Thank you.

Stripey · Jul 27, 2021

Shabbaz
I often tell my clients that having your rights does not always lead to getting your rights. The lawyer's fees are often so high that conducting legal proceedings does not lead to an acceptable solution to the dispute.
In addition, people often underestimate what a procedure entails in terms of emotions and tension. These are all considerations that can lead to the decision not to initiate proceedings.

As a lawyer, seconded. People have no idea how emotionally draining litigation is.

Larry S · Jul 27, 2021

Stripey
As a lawyer, seconded. People have no idea how emotionally draining litigation is.

Right ..Juice needs to be worth the squeeze. Get your affairs in order people, and keep your papers current, before you are too out to lunch to do so. Your kids and spouses will thank you. .

ghce · Jul 28, 2021

Larry S
Right ..Juice needs to be worth the squeeze. Get your affairs in order people, and keep your papers current, before you are too out to lunch to do so. Your kids and spouses will thank you. .

Or hate you forever lol

krogerfoot · Oct 3, 2021

An update for anyone still on the edge of their seat over this drama: I signed the papers to retain the lawyer I consulted and sent scans to her, with the message "Let's do this. Tell me where to send the check." Going on three weeks with no response.

Omegafanman · Oct 3, 2021

krogerfoot
An update for anyone still on the edge of their seat over this drama: I signed the papers to retain the lawyer I consulted and sent scans to her, with the message "Let's do this. Tell me where to send the check." Going on three weeks with no response.

Does the lawyer have an office / secretary? In these situations repeated phone calls are often best to check people are working / messages are a bit weak. Then set reasonable deadlines for responses and set periods for updates in writing - you have to run them (in a polite way)
What was your selection criteria for the lawyer / did their credentials check out - if you have not paid them or signed their terms then you are not even in contract with them yet so more time lost. I agree with @Evitzee time is not on your side And @Dan S you need to get a good probate lawyer on the case pronto. As a close blood relative with a good relationship in the UK you would have a case, but claims should be made within 6 months of a public probate grant I believe. I had not seen this thread before but if you are serious about this it will need drive, focus and effort - or better to let it go and move on with life.

krogerfoot · Oct 5, 2021

Omegafanman
Does the lawyer have an office / secretary? In these situations repeated phone calls are often best to check people are working / messages are a bit weak. Then set reasonable deadlines for responses and set periods for updates in writing - you have to run them (in a polite way)
What was your selection criteria for the lawyer / did their credentials check out - if you have not paid them or signed their terms then you are not even in contract with them yet so more time lost. I agree with @Evitzee time is not on your side And @Dan S you need to get a good probate lawyer on the case pronto. As a close blood relative with a good relationship in the UK you would have a case, but claims should be made within 6 months of a public probate grant I believe. I had not seen this thread before but if you are serious about this it will need drive, focus and effort - or better to let it go and move on with life.

Thanks for your advice. Thus far, I've typically needed to send a slightly impatient-sounding follow-up e-mail to prompt a response from the lawyer. She was a referral from the first firm I contacted, which recommended that I work with someone who specializes in contested wills. In her defense, no complete inventory has been filed by the widow, so as yet there's nothing to contest.

I work insane hours and my finances are still precarious, so keeping up with the case requires more energy than I have at the moment. As noted here, my mother's health has also begun a dramatic deterioration and bringing my family to the US to visit her in the next couple of months, while she is still lucid, and arranging for her care will be devastatingly expensive.

It's possible I'm dragging my feet because at heart I believe I don't deserve anything. I need to keep in mind that if I don't stake a claim for a piece of my father's estate, it's also my nephew and my kids who are losing out.

DaveK · Oct 5, 2021

Take good care of yourself, you’ll make it through this.

Edit: I’m struggling with the daily demands of life, so I mean this sincerely.

cvalue13 · Oct 5, 2021

Shabbaz
I often tell my clients that having your rights does not always lead to getting your rights. The lawyer's fees are often so high that conducting legal proceedings does not lead to an acceptable solution to the dispute.
In addition, people often underestimate what a procedure entails in terms of emotions and tension. These are all considerations that can lead to the decision not to initiate proceedings.

I wonder if you’re an estates lawyer?

And I separately wonder if I’m this case the estate has been through probate? Apologies if I’ve missed it. But it sounded as though he passed without an enforceable will, and so the probate process I would expect to require completion and also to be not so lengthy a battle (unless perhaps the widow has liquidated the estates assets in the meanwhile),

That said, I’m a TX lawyer who does not practice estates, so I am very likely to “know only enough to be dangerous”

Kroger, very sorry for your loss, and just as sorry for this context surrounding it. If you could use some assistance in identifying a TX estates lawyer, I may be able to put some recommendations to you.

Omegafanman · Oct 5, 2021

It's possible I'm dragging my feet because at heart I believe I don't deserve anything. I need to keep in mind that if I don't stake a claim for a piece of my father's estate, it's also my nephew and my kids who are losing out.[/QUOTE]

I think this was my concern. In rugby if you don’t go in for a full tackle and hang back you are more likely to fail and get hurt. There is a reason why money and power stay with the same families and companies - they might sound touchy feely these days but in reality all will play hard for money and know that business is business. You can still make moral decisions down the line / even give up the inheritance if you like - but better to do that from a position of strength once you have won a right to claim / have a valuation. It is interesting your brother has made and signed some form of settlement - normally there can be no disbursements to potential beneficiaries before probate if people are following rules / it sounds like someone has good advice and a game plan. Your solicitor should be advising on the steps and times scales. Maybe other assets are being moved or disposed of ?
Some time allocated / spent on this issue might be more valuable compared to your day job and if so you need a plan for the coming weeks with so much on. For this situation I would expect a list of actions / timescales from you solicitor outlining the process and possible outcomes. Also there is no shame if you decide to walk away and move on which is sometimes the best thing in these circumstances. Sorry you all this to deal with / good luck with everything.

My father's Cartier watch

JwRosenthal

kkt

Shabbaz

krogerfoot

krogerfoot

Donn Chambers

krogerfoot

krogerfoot

krogerfoot

kkt

Waltesefalcon

Stripey

Larry S

ghce

krogerfoot

Omegafanman

krogerfoot

DaveK

cvalue13

Omegafanman

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