Forums Latest Members

Martel time-only movements for Universal Genève

  1. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 14, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    Much has been discussed about the connection between Martel Watch Co. and Universal Genève. However, the focus is generally on chronograph movements rather than time-only movements. I have found a couple of instances in which time-only movements, made by Martel, have been presented in forum discussions. One instance is a post by @nicola1960 on Orologi & Passioni: https://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=66008463
    Another instance is a post by SilkeN on WatchUSeek: https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/...o-and-zenith-chronographs.660565/post-7744584

    Source: https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/...o-and-zenith-chronographs.660565/post-5714553
    upload_2023-1-14_23-42-56.jpeg

    Source: https://orologi.forumfree.it/?t=66008463
    upload_2023-1-14_23-44-18.jpeg
    martel pocket time only 10.jpg

    Source: https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/...o-and-zenith-chronographs.660565/post-7744584
    upload_2023-1-14_23-45-19.jpeg
    upload_2023-1-14_23-46-13.jpeg

    Seeing these movements made me wonder which time-only movements UG used in their earlier pocket watches. My initial search yielded an example with the UG caliber 268. It was immediately evident that this movement closely resembled the time-only movements by Martel. However, there are a few differences, such as the design and location of the click and click spring, as well as the shape of the lever cock.

    Source: https://vintagewatchesantiquejewelry.com/watches/1221-universal-geneve.html
    upload_2023-1-14_23-47-13.jpeg
    upload_2023-1-14_23-47-24.jpeg upload_2023-1-14_23-47-13.jpeg

    A bit more searching yielded the UG caliber 290. This movement seems to have the same click and click spring as the Martel movement, but the lever cock of the UG caliber 268. The balance cock is also different, presumably to accommodate a flat hairspring.

    Source: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2030235319...ctS4IaY2oAjxHykC/WiEa3Bzk=|tkp:Bk9SR7zqiry2YQPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network
    upload_2023-1-14_23-48-42.jpeg
    upload_2023-1-14_23-48-51.jpeg
    upload_2023-1-14_23-49-3.jpeg

    Another thing that I noticed were the numbers on the dial side of both the Martel movement (40'837) and the UG caliber 290 (122'380). I wonder if these are serial numbers? I looked for other examples and found a few repeaters, with Martel-signed dials, that had visible numbers. See number 28'827 below.

    Source: https://www.ricardo.ch/fr/a/martel-watch-minutenrepetition-laeuft-1157499916/
    upload_2023-1-14_23-50-29.jpeg
    upload_2023-1-14_23-50-40.jpeg
    upload_2023-1-14_23-50-57.jpeg
    upload_2023-1-14_23-51-11.jpeg
    upload_2023-1-14_23-51-19.jpeg

    If anyone has more information about the movement numbers, Martel time-only movements, or UG caliber 290, I would be curious to learn.
     
    byunjoe, khmt2, Mark020 and 7 others like this.
  2. Modest_Proposal Trying too hard to be one of the cool kids Jan 15, 2023

    Posts
    2,890
    Likes
    5,960
    There are companies that have these weird black holes. UG and Minerva made almost no simple dress pocket watches. IWC made almost no chronograph movements. Just... strange.

    The UG cal. 268 can come in really fine finishing.

    Here's another variation of this movement, this one marketed by Election, who shared doors with Marvin by the 50's.

    s-l16005.jpeg
     
  3. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 15, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    Thanks for your response!

    I have come across quite a few "Universal Watch" pocket watches, but not many UG-signed examples that are time-only and pre-1950. The Universal Watch examples seem to come with a variety of movements. Maybe they were made prior the establishment of Martel, or prior to Martel supplying time-only movements.

    That Election variant of the movement is really neat. Unlike the UG calibers 268 and 290, it seems to have the same lever bridge as the Martel-signed example(s). Also, I like the more complex escape wheel and fourth wheel cocks. I will explore Election/Marvin further.
     
  4. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 15, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    P.S. I also notice a zero or letter "O" by the crown wheel. I suspect that this indicates that the movement was originally sold in France, and in a gold case.
     
  5. Modest_Proposal Trying too hard to be one of the cool kids Jan 15, 2023

    Posts
    2,890
    Likes
    5,960
    DirtyDozen12 likes this.
  6. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 15, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    Another great find, thank you!

    This one appears to be for the American market, with the "PXT" import code.
     
  7. Mark020 not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer Jan 19, 2023

    Posts
    4,739
    Likes
    6,745
    Movement numbers they are
     
  8. Mark020 not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer Jan 19, 2023

    Posts
    4,739
    Likes
    6,745
  9. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 19, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    Thanks for sharing this example and information. I am surprised that UG assigned the same caliber number to two distinct movements. I wonder if they were produced at the same time? So far, the only serial number I have for a UG caliber 290 (time-only) is 659'xxx.
    I wonder if you read about this somewhere, or determined it independently?
     
  10. vintagechrono Jan 20, 2023

    Posts
    47
    Likes
    158
    Universal Geneve initially used the Valjoux 69, calling it first 270 and then 290. Subsequently the 10.5'' Martel, called cal.289. A few photos: the 290 is on my Compur and a Valjoux 69 on my JJ .
     
    UG270(Valjoux69).jpg UG290(V69).jpg UG289vs290.jpg UG289.jpg UG289a.jpg Valjoux69.jpg
    DirtyDozen12 likes this.
  11. Mark020 not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer Jan 20, 2023

    Posts
    4,739
    Likes
    6,745
    Indepedently....
     
    DirtyDozen12 likes this.
  12. vintagechrono Jan 20, 2023

    Posts
    47
    Likes
    158
    Thanks Mark020, they look contemporary to me, even though I thought the first denomination was the 270. A 270 with case back serial number 679.xxx appears on a Japanese site. Other 270s with 738.xxx,cal 290 with 710.xxx and 728.xxx.I apologize for the translation.
     
    Edited Jan 20, 2023
    DirtyDozen12 likes this.
  13. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jan 20, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    Thanks for the information and photos! Calibers 270 and 290 look the same, to me. I wonder why UG used two different caliber numbers? As a side note, the finishing on your Jules Jurgensen is wonderful!
     
    Mark020 likes this.
  14. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Feb 4, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    Mark020 and Carlton-Browne like this.
  15. Mark020 not the sharpest pencil in the ΩF drawer Mar 5, 2023

    Posts
    4,739
    Likes
    6,745
  16. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Mar 5, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    Here is a UG caliber 274, which looks to be related to caliber 268. The design of the balance cock and lever cock, location of the click, and other details look to match up.

    Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CjQb6B3LD8_/
    upload_2023-3-5_14-50-26.png
    upload_2023-3-5_14-49-51.png
     
    Woops, Carlton-Browne and Mark020 like this.
  17. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Apr 22, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
  18. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Jul 31, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    Adding another example for posterity. This one is unsigned, but closely matches the Martel-signed example and has a close serial(?) number on the dial side. The Martel earlier in this thread is 40837 and this unsigned one is 39208.

    Source: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3945155450...CcjZLjWDyQw5u4R6M%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2349624Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

    upload_2023-7-31_22-2-32.png
     
    Mark020 and Vitezi like this.
  19. timjohn Jul 31, 2023

    Posts
    1,138
    Likes
    6,682
    Not sure if this is a Martel base, but it's marked cal 262
    Universal time only movement 2.JPG
     
  20. DirtyDozen12 Thanks, mystery donor! Aug 1, 2023

    Posts
    2,686
    Likes
    4,618
    I've also got a caliber 262 laying around somewhere. Unfortunately, I do not know enough to comment on whether these were made by Martel.