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Longines MN research

R
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Mostly blank caseback, but definitely wasn't always.
4.jpg

I see at least 3 digits. Maybe someone with a better eye and photo manipulation skills could make something out of them.
 
DirtyDozen12
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Thanks to everyone who has continued to contribute to this thread. I have updated the table in my original post.
 
L
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number……2 😉
Same (service😕) dial as 333 but very nice visually nevertheless and with some aging.
Batch 23603 and lowest serial number: 7305358
 
518D45EA-8DA6-49A4-A495-3B850569A5D4.jpeg B1A40F2E-58C3-4E8D-BE8B-4AC8E436D7EE.jpeg
DirtyDozen12
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@LoMat Thanks for sharing this early example.

In terms of the dial, I would simply call it a redial/refinished dial without evidence to support a service dial claim. The quality of the printing looks quite poor (e.g. "60" of outer scale) and the lack of luminous material does not fit with the luminous hands. Also, the hands should be a blue tone.
 
L
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Hands are blued and original. They are a bit rusty though.
Dial might have been refinished but a long time ago given the defaults (rusty dots) that have appeared.
 
P
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Hi,
L LoMat
Thanks Ron.
Here are better pictures.
i registered here because i bought one with exactly the same dial/hands. I think this is a service dial.
 
DirtyDozen12
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P pamaro
Hi,

i registered here because i bought one with exactly the same dial/hands. I think this is a service dial.
If both dials are exactly the same, I think it would be reasonable to conclude that they came from the same source. I am not exactly certain what is meant by the term "service dial", but the imprecise execution of this dial suggests that it was probably not made (at least the printing) by the company that made the original dials. I would be curious to see photos of the dial in your watch.
 
P
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DirtyDozen12 DirtyDozen12
If both dials are exactly the same, I think it would be reasonable to conclude that they came from the same source. I am not exactly certain what is meant by the term "service dial", but the imprecise execution of this dial suggests that it was probably not made (at least the printing) by the company that made the original dials. I would be curious to see photos of the dial in your watch.
Hi. Ive send the watch today to Longines. Will post definetly some pictures when i have it back. By "Servicedial" i mean something like we know from Rolex/Tudor. https://millenarywatches.com/what-is-rolex-service-dial/
 
DirtyDozen12
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P pamaro
Hi. Ive send the watch today to Longines. Will post definetly some pictures when i have it back. By "Servicedial" i mean something like we know from Rolex/Tudor. https://millenarywatches.com/what-is-rolex-service-dial/
Thank you for the clarification. Without evidence, I do not find it reasonable to conclude that these dials are service dials. These watches all went to France when they were new. I think it is plausible that the same local dial restorer was used by more than one ref. 5774 owner.
 
P
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P pamaro
Hi. Ive send the watch today to Longines. Will post definetly some pictures when i have it back. By "Servicedial" i mean something like we know from Rolex/Tudor. https://millenarywatches.com/what-is-rolex-service-dial/
DirtyDozen12 DirtyDozen12
Thank you for the clarification. Without evidence, I do not find it reasonable to conclude that these dials are service dials. These watches all went to France when they were new. I think it is plausible that the same local dial restorer was used by more than one ref. 5774 owner.

Even if it was made by a local watchmaker (Dial restorer), it would still be "authenthic", in my opinion. Maybe we could bring togehter more examples of watches with that dial? I would not like to say that it sound far-fetched that some french marines had their watch serviced by the same guy, and ended up with a dial with missing fab suisse.

The dial of my watch also have some signs of age, like the one @LoMat owns. Also my watch was definetly for decades in a drawer. the seller hasnt mentioned anything about its military background and left it as it was, full of dirt..
 
DirtyDozen12
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P pamaro
Even if it was made by a local watchmaker (Dial restorer), it would still be "authenthic", in my opinion.
Just to clarify, I have created the diagram below. I think that most watch components fall under these four categories: original, restored, replaced, and fake. At least on this forum, many if not most collectors prefer original components over restored or replaced components. This is especially true for dials. Regarding a dial that has been refinished by a local watchmaker, I would consider the dial to be restored (and authentic). As for a service dial, I would consider that to be replaced (and authentic).

upload_2022-5-6_15-34-58.png


P pamaro
Maybe we could bring togehter more examples of watches with that dial?
I think that this would be interesting. However, even if a large number of examples were identified, I do not think that one could draw a conclusion about the origin of these dials, only that they likely shared a common origin.
 
Servius
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P pamaro
I would not like to say that it sound far-fetched that some french marines had their watch serviced by the same guy, and ended up with a dial with missing fab suisse.

Some other member might correct me but french marines did not have their watches serviced : army had their own watchmakers, who took care of those pieces. Pieces by the way that are not supposed, at any time, to be in private hands (state property). Apparently, some have been lost... and found 😉
 
P
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DirtyDozen12 DirtyDozen12
I think that this would be interesting. However, even if a large number of examples were identified, I do not think that one could draw a conclusion about the origin of these dials, only that they likely shared a common origin.

@Servius made a good Point.

Servius Servius
Some other member might correct me but french marines did not have their watches serviced : army had their own watchmakers, who took care of those pieces. Pieces


If we could spot more of those metallic, missing "Fab Suisse" and radium on nummerals dials,and there are few out there, it would be interesting to research how the army watchmakers repaired/restored the watches.

And that would make them, from historical view, authenthic as they are.

I regret that i havent made pictures of mine before sending it to longines.. the caseback had some watchmaker signatures scratched inside. Will compare it to @LoMats Signatures in his caseback as soon as i it returns
Edited:
 
P
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In case we can research it was done because it was demanded by the authorities of the marine, or just the way their watchmakers handled the watches, than it is authentic for me. We are talking here about a issued watch, so, for me, everything that was done to this watch within the time it was used in military, is authentic, especially when it was done because it had a reason why it was done, as it was done.

Sure, a watch in the condition it was issued will be more collectible, no doubt. I think, because this thread was opened for research, we should try to evaluate why there are MN watches with this dial.

It would be interesting how long they were used, how the watchmakers repaired/restored the watches and probably if there were some restrictions on radium at a later point.
 
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