Longines and the Lemania 1341

Pascal S

if it's some kind of fake, why go through the trouble of engraving the rotor on the movement on a watch with a solid caseback?

DirtyDozen12

I think that this question is answered by the sales listing. Vintage watch buyers typically want to see photos of the movement before buying a watch, and an unmarked movement would be an obvious giveaway that the watch is not correct. I would be very reluctant to conclude that this is a prototype without strong evidence. In my experience, there are far more fake/fantasy watches than actual prototypes.

I think that a potentially fruitfull course of action would be to look for known original examples from the late 1970s-1990s and compare their movement, case, and dial markings with this one. To start, below are three examples of Longines chronographs from the 1990s (I believe). As you can see, all three have certain markings on the outside of the case-back (e.g. serial number reference number, case material). Given that these markings are absent from the outside of the case-back on the Lemania example, I would guess that the watch is not from the 1990s.

1990s example 1, serial 25'599'316

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314152389659?hash=item4924f10c1b:g:7cIAAOSwpqNjJ1oz&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAsCulvoJOjSt260Lb1R2LEgXe4Qmw0E4+U+DwFhL3OxBqA549b8+l/IsUHivCti24fhsvxoU9AW6teGQllV9W+cnbYBKZm086ohDKjH59yTfWloNAUUacxUP2jy1Chf9HqRjcxKOVBCctGp9HMuX1a8oGT6D1a7tUWgBlZ1dmsE2HzyneiC9zt4AvLaEnewi3x1wI636Z9BT036e9RtIi1li3uV+yg4GzHayaVewZ6w8T|tkp:Bk9SR9TQxfKeYQ&nma=true&si=%2BQP%2F7deIqwSiAlQ7xmFxpeShBpQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

1990s example 2, serial obscured

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185620789207?hash=item2b37dc77d7:g:W~gAAOSwYcNjOJqo&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAsH9EUSI7wTTnolRdIDLyZfS9B7HWiy3C1rSlO8r9KTPv0tcwkgIJKJ/9YupbxcjOrgz6Vp5ZCjH7DnPQWiq96VU6c4VsghBBc3+utUmv8fSGWQajn1Td5tKDkIGkhGMoDxeQpSGS1KgwrD5VQKbpoIVxXTX+kdwTJtnLnv4tupCKNk23RfAKZY/PtOCe1bcpO9ZT/Vis8QGLxc19zx6G/XBkHuzUEWSbWS7G3O62tT1l|tkp:Bk9SR9bQxfKeYQ&nma=true&si=%2BQP%2F7deIqwSiAlQ7xmFxpeShBpQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

1990s example 3, serial 27'810'222

https://www.tooveys.com/lots/392368/a-longines-conquest-quartz-two-colour-stainless-steel-cased/

Below are two examples from the 1980s (I believe). Both examples have serial numbers on the outside of their case-backs. The apparent absence of such a marking on the Lemania example could be the result of wear over time, so it is not crucial (IMO). However, I notice that both movements below have clearly visible Longines caliber designations. The absence of such a designation on the Lemania example strikes me as suspicious.

Additionally, the 7-digit number on the rotor of the Lemania example also raises a red flag. Since 1969, Longines used consecutive serial numbers (marked on the case) that began at 15'000'000, and movement numbers that began at 50'000'000. The number on the Lemania example is 3'509'765.

1980s example 1, serial 17'113'880(?)

https://www.catawiki.com/en/l/26675...&utm_campaign=Watches-COM#gallery&gid=1&pid=7

1980s example 2, serial 18'668'063(?)

https://wannabuyawatch.com/product/longines-18k-yg-chronograph-circa-1980s/

Pascal S

But my own area of "expertise" is centered on Lemania-powered chronograph, and I don't recall ever seeing any with that combination of dial and hands. That's why I'm so intrigued, because I usually can easily place the source of each individual component on a suspect watch. Not this time.

Modest_Proposal

Nice display of contemporary examples. I will say that they put some thought into the rotor if it's a fake, though. It's in the same format as legit examples. Then again, it's a fairly basic script and parts are not expensive for these.

Syrte

The answer is very simple, you need the seller to send you a picture of the movement showing the Longines movement serial number to query Longines and get an extract of archive.

Modest_Proposal

Even that is not perfect! All it would tell you is if the movement is authentic and if it was placed in a stainless steel case (along with a few other small details). Unless Longines' records are more generous for later years.

DirtyDozen12

@Syrte Your're right, but isn't this beating around the bush more fun? 😀

Syrte

It would tell you this very particular movement belongs to a Longines watch. Wasn’t that the answer to the question?😝
Since Longines will also need a picture of the engravings inside the case back, suddenly a lot will become clearer…



You’re right, sorry I’m just so much more lazy than you are. I’m impressed with all of the unexpected Longines watches you were able to whip up here. 😜

Pascal S

Not only did it originally belong to a gold plated watch