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It’s really here — eBay’s unilateral 3rd party authentication

Dan S
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
Doubtful. I think this will suppress supply as most sellers (even if 100% legitimate) won’t want to deal with the risk and potential delivery delays.

Buyers also won’t like the delays either.

What happens if there are even more delays because authenticators leave or get backed up with too many watches to look at?

Too many “if’s” and “but’s” here for me to feel comfortable. Then again, I’ve never bought a >$2,000 watch on eBay anyway.
gatorcpa

A problem is that there is really no viable alternative at this point to replace the massive scale of watch sales on eBay. We are living in a world where most of the big tech companies have virtually no competition. We can complain, but they will just impose their will on us. It's like the onerous T&C waivers that we're required to AGREE to whenever we make an account or install software. Don't like it? Tough luck. Presumably, once people have developed a tolerance to the authentication process, eBay will monetize it.

I'm happy that I have other options, and perhaps this will increase the volume of sales on collector forums, but those numbers are a drop in the bucket compared to eBay, and mainly aimed at a more sophisticated demographic.
 
sonicosa
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Dan S Dan S
Presumably, once people have developed a tolerance to the authentication process, eBay will monetize it.

This was my assumption as well after reading through the previous thread on the subject.

Interested to read that ‘dealer’s perspective’ thread @gatorcpa linked too.
 
OmegaRody
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
The glory days of finding good buys on eBay are officially over.
gatorcpa
Can you elaborate more on why you think that way?
 
gatorcpa
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OmegaRody OmegaRody
Can you elaborate more on why you think that way?
Sure. And again, remember that I am only referring to watches over $2,000 that would be subject to this requirement.

eBay has been doing everything in their power to drive small sellers of collectibles off the platform. My belief is that for items that are not generic ("generic" would include items that are already certified, like sports cards, coins and stamps), watch dealers want a safe place to be able to sell more expensive pieces. eBay traditionally has had fees much less than traditional auction houses, which has been attractive to this class of dealer.

However, over the years, eBay has added extra fees through PayPal, and taken away some seller protections (i.e., the inability to leave negative feedback for bad buyers). Over a period of time, I have noticed less and less good, solid vintage watches in that $2,000 price range being sold by dealers and more and more dodgy pieces with redials, wrong parts, etc. To me, this looks like Gresham's Law in action, substituting watches for currency.

Now by adding an additional waiting time of... who knows, to the issues we are currently having with customs and our USPS, eBay will be driving out more and more of the middle-of-the-road dealers who make a living in the mid-level vintage watch trade.

Once the remaining dealers start to leave, what will be left to buy?

From eBay's point of view, they might as well make the change now, since there are not of lot of alternatives for sellers. However, once COVID-19 abates, and it eventually will, I suspect a lot of dealers will go back to the face-to-face watch shows or go back to selling only on their own web sites, where they can set their own rules.

I just don't see how that benefits anyone, but as a public company, eBay is all about maximizing profits now and letting the future take care of itself when it happens.

Just my $0.02 worth.
gatorcpa
 
airansun
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Dan S Dan S
It's also interesting that he generalizes about buyers making up problems with watches, demanding partial refunds, and leaving a bad mark on the seller's record. I have bought watches from his company on eBay, and I have to admit that his photos and descriptions are often not very good or accurate. However, I have been careful not to overpay so I've been satisfied with my purchases. I have also sent messages to him pointing out egregious errors in his listings, and he has refused to correct them.

I’ve had exactly the same experience with his listings. None of his stuff turns out to be as squared away as it seemed in his listing.

I assume that this policy will split up eBay’s watch market, with some moving to Chrono24, some moving to watch forums and others moving to new platforms that will imitate what eBay used to be. eBay will be left with newbie buyers and the clueless.

I’ll never understand why eBay doesn’t start first with all those Ukrainian watches, or those redials from the Far East, or those Chinese fakes of everything. The watch I listed at the outset of this thread hardly needs to be shipped to someone to authenticate.

I get that eBay is trying to solve a problem (and create a new billable service), but I’m sure it’s a small issue in comparison with the magnitude of their successful transactions. They will kill the thing they are trying to save.
 
OmegaRody
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
Sure. And again, remember that I am only referring to watches over $2,000 that would be subject to this requirement.

eBay has been doing everything in their power to drive small sellers of collectibles off the platform. My belief is that for items that are not generic ("generic" would include items that are already certified, like sports cards, coins and stamps), watch dealers want a safe place to be able to sell more expensive pieces. eBay traditionally has had fees much less than traditional auction houses, which has been attractive to this class of dealer.

However, over the years, eBay has added extra fees through PayPal, and taken away some seller protections (i.e., the inability to leave negative feedback for bad buyers). Over a period of time, I have noticed less and less good, solid vintage watches in that $2,000 price range being sold by dealers and more and more dodgy pieces with redials, wrong parts, etc. To me, this looks like Gresham's Law in action, substituting watches for currency.

Now by adding an additional waiting time of... who knows, to the issues we are currently having with customs and our USPS, eBay will be driving out more and more of the middle-of-the-road dealers who make a living in the mid-level vintage watch trade.

Once the remaining dealers start to leave, what will be left to buy?

From eBay's point of view, they might as well make the change now, since there are not of lot of alternatives for sellers. However, once COVID-19 abates, and it eventually will, I suspect a lot of dealers will go back to the face-to-face watch shows or go back to selling only on their own web sites, where they can set their own rules.

I just don't see how that benefits anyone, but as a public company, eBay is all about maximizing profits now and letting the future take care of itself when it happens.

Just my $0.02 worth.
gatorcpa
Ok that makes sense. Thanks for your reply
 
jsducote
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airansun airansun
I’ll never understand why eBay doesn’t start first with all those Ukrainian watches, or those redials from the Far East, or those Chinese fakes of everything.
Authentication based on seller/shipper's location might be both a better idea and more controversial at the same time.
 
airansun
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Here’s the seller’s reply to my eBay message:

“What the hell are you talking about? What authentication program? This watch is not in any program.”

I sent him the same screen shots I’ve already posted here.

I’ll keep this updated.
 
Dan S
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airansun airansun
Here’s the seller’s reply to my eBay message:

“What the hell are you talking about? What authentication program? This watch is not in any program.”

I sent him the same screen shots I’ve already posted here.

I’ll keep this updated.

Wow. That's got to be a shock for him.
 
MikeMan2727
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airansun airansun
Here’s the seller’s reply to my eBay message:

“What the hell are you talking about? What authentication program? This watch is not in any program.”

I sent him the same screen shots I’ve already posted here.

I’ll keep this updated.

Seller sounds like a real charmer...

😀
 
airansun
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He’s replied again:

“oh okay not sure what thats all about I didn't select that. Its getting shipped directly to who ever buys it. Watch is 100% authentic.”

I suggested that he read about the program.
 
Dan S
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airansun airansun
He’s replied again:

“oh okay not sure what thats all about I didn't select that. Its getting shipped directly to who ever buys it. Watch is 100% authentic.”

I suggested that he read about the program.

This suggests to me that eBay is going to make sure that the seller doesn't find out the address of the buyer.
 
airansun
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I’ve now suggested to him that maybe I ought to make him an offer, just to see what eBay would do if he shipped it directly to me. 😉

🍿

I don’t think I’m going to be hearing from him for a while...
Edited:
 
JwRosenthal
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Eventually people will find a way around this even on the platform. Being a pipe smoker, the trading of vintage sealed tobaccos had been part of the hobby (like wine collecting)- a 40 year old tin of Sealed Dunhill Nightcap, when produced by Murray’s, has serous value (again - like wine- doesn’t matter if you smoke it or not- it’s a sealed tin).
eBay cracked down on all tobacco products several years ago....but now people are selling the tins as collectible, the contents just happen to be inside- and thus the market found another way.
They are now trying to enforce that tins much be shown open as to show there is no tobacco inside- but the bypass was to show one empty tin as an “example” and ship sealed tins as the product purchased (photo is for representation- blah, blah).
The market will always find a way to bypass this shit.
 
Scarecrow Boat
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This is going to surprise a lot of buyers and sellers that regularly and collectively "trash" all of the "update" emails they receive from eBay. Sellers (like the one airansun was in contact with) will unknowingly ship the watch to an authenticator because that is the address eBay provided. In turn, this will cause a lot of uneducated buyers to send concerned "my tracking says delivered but I haven't received anything" emails. Which, would trickle down to a potentially freaked out seller thinking they will be out money and a watch...

On the flip side, when the "wiser" buyers and sellers try to go around this process, I wonder how many "please ship to this address" private messages will be sent. Which, will cause a lot of authenticator tracking labels to go unclaimed, which would cause a potential false backlog of work the authenticators are expecting. (this is assuming that when a watch sells, eBay notifies the authenticator to expect a watch.)
Edited:
 
airansun
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His response:

“hmm interesting. Need to look into this if it would go against terms and would void buyer seller protection.”

I told him I knew the watch was genuine and to let me know once he’d studied the situation.
 
gatorcpa
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Eventually people will find a way around this even on the platform.
I suggested this in the NAWCC thread I linked above.

There is an exception to the automatic authentication process for items that have been customized by using non-OEM parts.

For sellers that have watches with generic leather bands or crystals of unknown provenance, I think if the seller puts a disclaimer In the listing regarding customization of generic parts like buckles, crystals, etc., they may get kicked out of the authentication program.
gatorcpa
 
JwRosenthal
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
I suggested this in the NAWCC thread I linked above.

There is an exception to the automatic authentication process for items that have been customized by using non-OEM parts.

For sellers that have watches with generic leather bands or crystals of unknown provenance, I think if the seller puts a disclaimer In the listing regarding customization of generic parts like buckles, crystals, etc., they may get kicked out of the authentication program.
gatorcpa
That’s what I was thinking. Something to the point of “ Lovely Fluco strap for sale, included with strap is an Omega Speedmaster and additional parts bracelet and endlinks which make up a whole bracelet when you put them together”.
 
MoclovFlop
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
I suggested this in the NAWCC thread I linked above.

There is an exception to the automatic authentication process for items that have been customized by using non-OEM parts.

For sellers that have watches with generic leather bands or crystals of unknown provenance, I think if the seller puts a disclaimer In the listing regarding customization of generic parts like buckles, crystals, etc., they may get kicked out of the authentication program.
gatorcpa

This kind of answers my question in the other thread. Theoretically, all one might need to do is be sure something is claimed as non-original.

This also might cut down on the listings that are always screaming "100% original untouched!!!!"
 
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