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It’s really here — eBay’s unilateral 3rd party authentication

Dan S
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
I think it’s more about once he found who the “authenticator” was, he knew them, was comfortable with them and was willing to try it out. But this is someone with inside information that we don’t have at present.

Until eBay is more transparent about this process, I remain skeptical as a buyer and a seller.

The glory days of finding good buys on eBay are officially over.
gatorcpa

On MWR, a member claims to know the identity of the authenticator, Ron Stoll, although I presume it really means that his company will do the work. I was not familiar with the name, but according to Google, he owns a large watch repair company that is the factory authorized service center in the US for a couple of dozen Swiss brands ((http://www.americaswatchmaker.com). Perhaps some OF members are familiar with him and can comment on his credentials with respect to vintage watches.

There is an OF member with the same user name (@bobbee) as the MWR member who posted this information, and I remember a former WUS member with the same username who was a knowledgeable vintage collector. Maybe he cares to elaborate.

https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?89895-Ebay-Authenticity-Guarantee-Program
 
JwRosenthal
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Dan S Dan S
On MWR, a member claims to know the identity of the authenticator, Ron Stoll, although I presume it really means that his company will do the work. I was not familiar with the name, but according to Google, he owns a large watch repair company that is the factory authorized service center in the US for a couple of dozen Swiss brands ((http://www.americaswatchmaker.com). Perhaps some OF members are familiar with him and can comment on his credentials with respect to vintage watches.

There is an OF member with the same user name (@bobbee) as the MWR member who posted this information, and I remember a former WUS member with the same username who was a knowledgeable vintage collector. Maybe he cares to elaborate.

https://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?89895-Ebay-Authenticity-Guarantee-Program
They look like a service center for several mid-line brands, I would not be instilled with confidence at them handling my vintage pieces. This would be like sending a vintage 911 to a Chrysler dealership for evaluation and service....no thanks.
 
Archer
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
They look like a service center for several mid-line brands, I would not be instilled with confidence at them handling my vintage pieces. This would be like sending a vintage 911 to a Chrysler dealership for evaluation and service....no thanks.

Looked at the web site. They claim that they insure every watch in their possession for the full value, so if that is the case, this is all going to cost them some money. Interested to know how all of this is being paid for...
 
JwRosenthal
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Looked at the web site. They claim that they insure every watch in their possession for the full value, so if that is the case, this is all going to cost them some money. Interested to know how all of this is being paid for...
This little experiment is going to go horribly wrong, very quickly. The liability to the shop that has to do the inspections is insane- I don’t know how anyone with an established business in good standing would want to put themselves in this position.
 
Archer
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
This little experiment is going to go horribly wrong, very quickly. The liability to the shop that has to do the inspections is insane- I don’t know how anyone with an established business in good standing would want to put themselves in this position.

Indeed...it makes me question if the information in this other forum is right.
 
JwRosenthal
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Indeed...it makes me question if the information in this other forum is right.
I would actually be curious to see the contract between the vendor and eBay- I guarantee that no matter how good a deal the vendor got, eBay has far better lawyers and will wash their hands of the liability when (not if) things go sideways, and leave the shop holding the bag.
 
Dan S
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Archer Archer
Indeed...it makes me question if the information in this other forum is right.

Sure, I hope it was clear that I was just repeating something that one member reported. I couldn't find an official announcement.
 
Archer
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
I would actually be curious to see the contract between the vendor and eBay- I guarantee that no matter how good a deal the vendor got, eBay has far better lawyers and will wash their hands of the liability when (not if) things go sideways, and leave the shop holding the bag.

Agreed. This is the sort of thing I have a strict policy against - I never get in the middle of a transaction between two other parties.

For example, people sometimes buy a watch from another party and want to have the seller ship it directly to me for service, and I always refuse this. After I explain to people that it's in their best interest to get the watch first, and make sure it meets the deal that they made, and that shipping it to me first may give the seller an "out" or at least a way to argue, most people see this and agree. Those that don't, I suggest they find another watchmaker.

I have to say, watchmakers are not authenticators, so I'm actually quite surprised that it's a watch repair place that may be doing this. When people PM me here asking if this or that part is original and right for the model, I refer them to the forum. My expertise is repairing watches, and I don't have time to learn the ins and outs of every model from every brand. It's the collectors that know this stuff inside and out, not watchmakers.
 
Archer
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Dan S Dan S
Sure, I hope it was clear that I was just repeating something that one member reported. I couldn't find an official announcement.

Yes, the fact I said "in this other forum" was to try to make it clear this wasn't you saying this...
 
gatorcpa
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@bobbee is a member here as well. As I said above, there are a few people who are very active on eBay that are “in the know” on this.

My understanding is that eBay is picking up all the fees for shipping and insurance from the authenticator to the buyer. It is supposed to be totally free to the seller, but I suspect that once the costs are totaled up, there will be an increase in commissions for all watch sellers (including those with watches <$2,000) to pay for this service.

I can see this working well for late model Rolex and Omega. It will be a nightmare for 1940’s British military watches where modifications were made in-house after WWII and the watches re-issued.

Then again, there is the policy on “customization”, that can exempt a watch from authentication services.
gatorcpa
 
ConElPueblo
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I may be naive, but I cannot see why eBay shouldn't make this voluntary for buyers to opt in to. That way people without the knowhow will have an option of a third party authenticator that the seller cannot refuse and those with the knowhow can continue as always.
 
gatorcpa
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ConElPueblo ConElPueblo
I may be naive, but I cannot see why eBay shouldn't make this voluntary for buyers to opt in to. That way people without the knowhow will have an option of a third party authenticator that the seller cannot refuse and those with the knowhow can continue as always.
That would make too much sense.
gatorcpa
 
Archer
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One question - I saw a post that quoted some eBay text that I can't find now - it said that the program was for "domestic" sales. So is this only applicable to US sales?
 
Dan S
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ConElPueblo ConElPueblo
I may be naive, but I cannot see why eBay shouldn't make this voluntary for buyers to opt in to. That way people without the knowhow will have an option of a third party authenticator that the seller cannot refuse and those with the knowhow can continue as always.

So, after the sale, the buyer would get the option of having it authenticated or not?
 
ConElPueblo
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Dan S Dan S
So, after the sale, the buyer would get the option of having it authenticated or not?

Yup. The seller won't have the option of refusing it, but the buyer can say no if he doesn't want it.

I really can't see why it wasn't like this to begin with. Too much eating the cake and having it too?
 
gatorcpa
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Archer Archer
One question - I saw a post that quoted some eBay text that I can't find now - it said that the program was for "domestic" sales. So is this only applicable to US sales?
I believe that is correct, for now. But I suspect that the US is the test market for this service.

Perhaps eBay will find an "authenticator" in Canada and start it there soon.

ConElPueblo ConElPueblo
Too much eating the cake and having it too?
That's "having your cake and eating it, too!", in 'Murican.

gatorcpa
 
Dan S
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Archer Archer
One question - I saw a post that quoted some eBay text that I can't find now - it said that the program was for "domestic" sales. So is this only applicable to US sales?

I noticed that it was only for sales on eBay.com, but I didn't see that it was limited to sales within the US. That's interesting, I totally missed that.
 
gatorcpa
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Dan S Dan S
I noticed that it was only for sales on eBay.com, but I didn't see that it was limited to sales within the US.
There’s probably a good reason for that.

Let’s say I have a listing where I will accept an international buyer and I charge $100 for FedEx and insurance to send it out. This is not unreasonable for a $2,000+ watch. Buyer buys the watch and pays me. So now I have $100 of the buyer’s money, but eBay will only give me the “authenticator’s” address in the US.

So I pay a fraction of the $100 for postage there and now eBay is going to pay the balance to get it to the buyer outside the US? And I get to keep the difference? Really?

There are a lot of questions on this system. Simply wasn’t well thought out and IMO will fail quickly.
gatorcpa
 
Dan S
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
There’s probably a good reason for that.

Let’s say I have a listing where I will accept an international buyer and I charge $100 for FedEx and insurance to send it out. This is not unreasonable for a $2,000+ watch. Buyer buys the watch and pays me. So now I have $100 of the buyer’s money, but eBay will only give me the “authenticator’s” address in the US.

So I pay a fraction of the $100 for postage there and now eBay is going to pay the balance to get it to the buyer outside the US? And I get to keep the difference? Really?

There are a lot of questions on this system. Simply wasn’t well thought out and IMO will fail quickly.
gatorcpa

Absolutely, the shipping for international sales was one of my major questions. So if they are totally excluded, I guess that addresses one issue.
 
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