Is this seamaster dial original?

arunavab713 · Oct 10, 2023

Hey folks,

I bought a Tiffany dial seamaster Deville ref C6865 from ebay, it was posted and discussed on the recommended vintage watch thread. Ebay authenticity guarantee contacted me saying that the dial has been refinished. At first they mentioned that the watchmaker concluded that since the Tiffany stamp is present, the dial is aftermarket, to which I sent over a picture of the journey through time book which mentions this reference, they have now come back and said that the dial has been refinished by someone other than omega or Tiffany. Everything else they say is original on the watch though.

I'd like a second opinion if you kind folks would give me your two cents? Attaching all the dial images

Here is the original listing : https://www.ebay.com/itm/2562179654...p5vfbx-qeu&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

nanjingcigaretes · Oct 10, 2023

I'm on redial here, The 'Seamaster' looks very sloppy, The coathanger 'S' was from 50s-60s but the watch was probably from 70s. The rest look Ok though.
Edit: Did some research, looks like the dial is legit, still think the Seamaster is funky 😁

lejaune · Oct 10, 2023

If the Ebay authenticator says it's refinished, I tend to believe it. And I think it was done nicely if it was indeed refinished.

arunavab713 · Oct 10, 2023

nanjingcigaretes
I'm on redial here, The 'Seamaster' looks very sloppy, The coathanger 'S' was from 50s-60s but the watch was probably from 70s. The rest look Ok though.
Edit: Did some research, looks like the dial is legit, still think the Seamaster is funky 😁

I know about the coat hanger S being from the 60s, and that this reference was probably the only exception from the 70s. Would defer to @dsio here since he found this originally!

Dan S · Oct 10, 2023

Here is a suggestion. Go to google images and find 10 other coathanger "S" Seamasters from the same era and compare the "Seamaster" letter by letter. I think it will become very clear before you are halfway through the 10 examples, and you will learn something because this is an easy one.

arunavab713 · Oct 10, 2023

Dan S
Here is a suggestion. Go to google images and find 10 other coathanger "S" Seamasters from the same era and compare the "Seamaster" letter by letter. I think it will become very clear before you are halfway through the 10 examples, and you will learn something.

I'll take a look. Do you see any other signs of a redial?

Dan S · Oct 10, 2023

A arunavab713
I'll take a look. Do you see any other signs of a redial?

Why do I need to keep looking once I know the answer? Am I being paid?

arunavab713 · Oct 10, 2023

Dan S
Why do I need to keep looking once I know the answer? Am I being paid?

Absolutely not! I was just deferring to people's help since I wanted to get a different opinion, since I'm new to vintage watches. Just because I asked doesn't mean that I'm not going to do my own research.

You absolutely do not have to keep looking, thank you!

Aroxx · Oct 10, 2023

I'm no pro but the gap between the "a" and "m" in Seamaster and the "m" itself look completely whack. And the Tiffany text is crooked. I vote redial.

dsio · Oct 10, 2023

So these watches are infamous for looking weird in their printing as a reference. They’re a US made Norman Morris model, likely with a US made dial and the Tiffany was definitely added after the fact to all of them, but here is a selection of them. I’m seeing a weird gap between the A & M in all of them, and a wacky looking M in all of them. The resolution on the OP’s image is really not vey good but here’s a decent selection.

OP’s watch:

Other examples:

arunavab713 · Oct 10, 2023

dsio
So these watches are infamous for looking weird in their printing as a reference. They’re a US made Norman Morris model, likely with a US made dial and the Tiffany was definitely added after the fact to all of them, but here is a selection of them. I’m seeing a weird gap between the A & M in all of them, and a wacky looking M in all of them.
OP’s watch:

Other examples:

Thank you for your comment! As per @Dan S 's suggestion I went ahead looking at these dials, I also found some where the there's an ever so slight tilt in the Tiffany stamp. Probably there was an ever so slight variation in the stamps Tiffany added since there was no direct omega supervision?

Dan S · Oct 10, 2023

dsio
So these watches are infamous for looking weird in their printing as a reference. They’re a US made Norman Morris model, likely with a US made dial and the Tiffany was definitely added after the fact to all of them, but here is a selection of them. I’m seeing a weird gap between the A & M in all of them, and a wacky looking M in all of them. The resolution on the OP’s image is really not vey good but here’s a decent selection.

That's research. 👍

X350 XJR · Oct 10, 2023

Here are three which have passed through my hands.

dsio · Oct 10, 2023

A arunavab713
Thank you for your comment! As per @Dan S 's suggestion I went ahead looking at these dials, I also found some where the there's an ever so slight tilt in the Tiffany stamp. Probably there was an ever so slight variation in the stamps Tiffany added since there was no direct omega supervision?

It’s hard to know exactly what the story is but these are definitely a 1970s watch and that is the wrong decade for a coat hanger S, but then Norman Morris’s US production was mostly in the 50s and 60s, so these were an oddity. They did make a lot of them, all with the one dial pattern and all Tiffany signed, and if I had to guess I’d say NM went to one of their dial makers who had produced for them in earlier decades and asked for another set of De Ville dials, and given the last dials that maker produced may have been the coat hangers from the early 60s they went with that.

Regarding the Tiffany stamps, I’m guessing here too but they were probably both stamped and retailed as a Tiffany exclusive, with the already printed dial stamped a second time, and variation could be expected from that.

dsio · Oct 10, 2023

X350 XJR
Here are three which have passed through my hands.

See I had a feeling you would have some great examples too I was just about to tag you!

arunavab713 · Oct 10, 2023

Thank you all for chipping in! 😀

Here are a couple I found which also have the weird gap but also the *slight tilt* in the Tiffany stamp relative to the automatic that some have mentioned.

SOG53 · Oct 10, 2023

As an interested observer here I would say that the funky Seamaster script is very consistent across all these examples, and would accept the theory offered by @dsio and conclude they are ok.
Is the seller responding to the ebay authenticator, offerring a discount or anything? Not that we put much faith in the authenticators....

arunavab713 · Oct 10, 2023

SOG53
As an interested observer here I would say that the funky Seamaster script is very consistent across all these examples, and would accept the theory offered by @dsio and conclude they are ok.
Is the seller responding to the ebay authenticator, offerring a discount or anything? Not that we put much faith in the authenticators....

I received a phone call from ebay and not the seller, is that something that happens, seller offering a discount because ebay authenticity raised a red flag?

SOG53 · Oct 10, 2023

I have heard of such especially if buyer becomes hesitant and seller anxious to make deal. Of course if consensus here is that wstch is ok then maybe not cool to demand reduction IMO.
See what seller says

arunavab713 · Oct 10, 2023

SOG53
I have heard of such especially if buyer becomes hesitant and seller anxious to make deal. Of course if consensus here is that wstch is ok then maybe not cool to demand reduction IMO.
See what seller says

Definitely don't want to short change anyone, since it was an auction and especially if the consensus here is that it's real and I trust the folks here. But I will ask the seller about any possible aftermarket history, thanks for the advice!

Is this seamaster dial original?

arunavab713

nanjingcigaretes

lejaune

arunavab713

Dan S

arunavab713

Dan S

arunavab713

Aroxx

dsio

arunavab713

Dan S

X350 XJR

dsio

dsio

arunavab713

SOG53

arunavab713

SOG53

arunavab713

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